Never saw this before
 

Tonight, GV, I was a spectator. V head coach got her second T early in the second half, down by 10 or so. She walked across the court and left without further incident. Her team clawed back, and finally went ahead by one with 12-15 seconds left on a steal and a layup. Big girl for H missed a wide open potential game winner from 2 feet at the buzzer. V erupted into a wild celebration in the center of the court. Officials were almost out the door........and then they stopped. There was the HC, in the middle of the celebration. They came back. One approached the group, and they exchanged words. I was told afterward it went something like this:

"Coach, you can't be in here."

"I'm just celebrating with my team."

Whatever it was, it wasn't the answer he was looking for. He gave a series of quick blasts on the whistle stepped over in front of the table, and made the T sign. She was escorted out again. Home made one of two, the game went to overtime, and the visitors lost.

If you see this coach come back in, what do you do?

1. Immediate T
2. Go to her and give her the opportunity to leave again
3. Keep walking

No brainer...

3. Keep walking

You can't give a warning here. It's either a T or nothing.

"They" say to get out quickly. Don't go looking for fly crap in pepper.

Or maybe it's don't go looking for pepper in fly crap. Adelmo???

I would not know who was celebrating.

Not sure it is a "t"
 

While the officials authority had not ended, the game is over. The coach has to leave the gym until the game is over. I don't think this is a T by rule.
As to the OP, I would never "see" the coach in this situation.

In this case, "I wouldn't have seen it" is not one of the options. I did not see her actually come back in the door, but let's just say it was immediately after the buzzer. Until tonight, I was in the "this will never happen" camp, but seeing this unfold made me realize that there is a time when we might be called upon to draw a line. In the game tonight, I tend to think I would have kept walking, but where is the line? If I look over my shoulder as I exit and see the coach peeking in on the opposite side to see if the coast is clear, no call. If the coach sprints in, deliberately blocks our exit and gives us the finger, yeah, I would make a call.

Once the contest is over, what rule is the coach violating?

After ejection, prohibited from further contact with the team for the remainder of the game. The game is not over until the jurisdiction of the officials has ended, is it?

*Shaking my head*

Keep on walking...couldn't even imagine giving a T here

I would keep walking, no impact on the game (finished already) and why create a mess?

Walking on out.

You are correct. Strictly speaking the coach needs to wait a few more seconds until the officials depart. After that she is free to join the celebration, unless there is a state regulation stating otherwise.

That said, is there a proscribed penalty to returning to the gym during the jurisdiction of the officials? Anyone know of somewhere in the books where it specifically says this is a technical foul? Could it just be a removal by game admin and a report to the governing authority?

I don't think it's anything more than part of the ejection report to the state assoc. "Coach failed to leave the premises after the ejection and participated in on-court celebrations immediately following the game before officials left the visual confines".

To be fair, the official(s) did try to get the coach to leave again before issuing the next T. It wasn't just a "hey -- look, it's the coach!" Tweet!

And I have given one T as I was leaving. Cost the coach the next game.

With Apologies To Freddy ...
 

Don't be a plumber.

Ejected adult bench personnel shall leave the vicinity (out of sight and sound) of the playing area immediately and are prohibited from further contact (direct or indirect) with the team during the remainder of the game. Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.

Coach has been ejected. Didn't really do anything else offensive, other that come back inside. The argument could be made that the two options were forfeit or nothing.

The game isn't over until the officials leave the visual confines of the court. I think in this case I wouldn't be looking for it, and even if I saw her I think I am getting off the floor as quickly as possible. I certainly don't think I'm going into the celebration and picking her out.

I would not be walking out, I'd be running out, not even looking back. Almost sounds as if the official salivated over giving the coach one more tech.

We need a "LIKE" button, so many of you guys are right, don't look for trouble. Can you give a coach a 3rd T?

Yes.

I am probably gone too. Game over I am in the locker room.

In our state we have Special Reports we have to file every time there is an ejection that we are involved in directly. That is the only thing I might be doing is putting this in the report. I just seriously doubt I would even know the coach was there.

Peace

For the record: Guys can say "I wouldn't have seen the coach" if they want, but that was not the point of the discussion. They did see her. That is a given, and it wasn't because they lingered after the game. My question was what if you did see her. Imagine that you literally bumped into her on your way out and her way in if you must, but she was there and very much visible so that is where the discussion begins.

Another twist. Around here, game assignment are near %100 girl/boy doubleheaders. It is not unheard of for the officials to not leave the gym at all between games.

Even if they did, so. Why would you want to even go there? Why would you even want to trouble, trouble? I see a lot of things I do not penalize immeditely. It is not hard to do.

And one more reasons I am glad I live in a state that has common sense. ;)

Peace

The coach would freakin' moonwalk in front of me for all I care...short of the coach actually doing something unsporting, I'm not giving a T for what you presented in your original post.

This is a state association issue-here if a coach is ejected they are to immediately leave the gym and not allowed to have contact with their team until they leave said gym.Said coach is also barred from coaching for 1 game.

Common Question-Does this rule apply to a varsity head coach who gets ejected while sitting on the JV bench and serving as an assistant? Yes-the varsity head coach must serve his JV suspension before he can coach varsity again.Penalty is immediate forfeiture of the contest for not leaving the gym or being in attendance while suspended from coaching.

We get a bad rap enough as it its without going out and earning said bad rap.

I wouldn't, but they did, and it was very interesting to watch.

OK, they did. So what.

And my state does not make a habit of playing this silly double headers and expecting the officials to do both. There are enough officials around to do two games at a site. And it is hard IMO to dedicate your full energy when you have to split up games (and genders) in the same night for the same officials. That to me contributed to this issue you are talking about IMO.

Peace

How?

Didn't you say the official usually hang around because they are working another game? There you go.

Peace

I said sometimes they never leave at all. In this case, the game ended on the opposite end of the gym from their exit. They headed straight out, skirted around the celebrating mob near the division line and were about to turn the corner of the bleachers when I saw them stop and realized what the deal was. Did they sprint to the exit? No, but I don't either. I see some that do.

Whatever the ultimate reason, I do not see T'ing up a coach that first should not be seen in the first place because the officials are off the court immediately. And secondly I do not see why a coach being on the court after the game is any of our concern. If it is that much of a concern, here we could post that in the report that we file as apart of the story about the ejection. I would let the state handle it from there. Otherwise I would not be giving a T for simply being on the court after the game is clearly over. Yes our jurisdiction is still present, but for me and most officials I know, we do not spend much time trying to find anything on the court after the game is over. If that is how you want to roll, be my guest.

Peace

I still wouldn't see her.

And if I did, the penalty would not be a T. If a coach who has been ejected is in the gym at some later point before my jurisdiction is over, I'd put it in the ejection report and let the state deal with it. If I heard correctly, they have forfeited games in such cases....not necessarily a post game celebration like this but before the game ended.

Please post documentation of that policy as well as if it is only particular to your local league or Section or if it for the entire CIF.

Even if I looked right at the coach, I didn't see her! Why go looking for trouble when it can be avoided. This seems to me that these guys were just trying to say I'm I charge here, and throw their power around.

I'm not sure how I'd see her there celebrating when I'm jogging off the floor.

Honestly, unless I trip over her on my way off the court, I'm not doing anything.

And not leaving the court is a mistake. When I lived in a G/B DH state, we *always* left the floor, got a drink, took a few minutes, then came back out as if it's a new day / new game.

I'm outta there.

Don't go looking for trouble, enough trouble finds you.

Agreed. We go to the dressing room to retrieve jackets, drink some water, and take a couple of minutes to re-focus.

Only way I see her, and penalize her, is if she cuts us off on the way out the door. Other than that, I'm gone. If someone were to complain to the conference or supervisor, I would just be honest and say the game was over and I saw nothing wrong with her actions.

I'm not forfeiting (the proper penalty, not a T) a game after the final buzzer.

It's been established that the game is over, not at the "final buzzer," but when the officials leave the floor (NFHS 2-2-4 and 5-3). Two thoughts on this...

We whine and complain that coaches, players, and fans, don't know the rules. Most everyone believes the myth that the game is over at the final buzzer, but we know that's not true. And here, all the ejected coach had to do was wait a few seconds for the officials to leave before hitting the floor and celebrating. How can we complain about a coach's ignorance when we perpetuate the myths by allowing the coach on the floor? Say what you want about plumbing, but at least this crew let the coach know where they line was, and gave the coach a chance to stay on the right side of it.

Last year, we had a thread started by a coach who thought it wasn't fair that he earned technical fouls "after a game" for questioning the officiating. (His actions led him to be banned from the next game.) A great majority of us came down on this coach, for not knowing the officials' jurisdiction remains as they remain on the court.

And now, we're coming down on this official for doing his job?

Short of the coach actually doing something unsporting to the official, you're job is to get off the court...not go seeking out trouble.

I agree with BNR and others. I'm not penalizing the coach unless .... .

Don't Put S*** In The Game!!

Apples and oranges. In one, the coach was committing an unsportsmanlike act after the horn. In the other, they were not.

Assuming you're talking about the OP's sitch, Cam, if an ejected individual comes back to the game, how is that not unsportsmanlike?

I'd get fired for whacking this coach before I'd get fired for missing a catch and shoot with only with .2 remaining on the clock.

One's a brain fart, the other is just plain silly officiating.

Yes but 10-5, Note says, basically an adult does not have to be around for the rest of the contest. The game is over at this point. So noticing a coach at this time is rather irrelevant at this point. If they are not committing an unsporting act that stands out, why would we care? It is a little more than knowing the rule, it is does it really matter at this point. Now if your state or association states this is to be penalized, OK. But that is not what I am going to do on my own. I just do not see the big deal, sorry.

Complaining about something after the game and being present on the court are two different things. And if this was any other situation where I knew a coach was not following a procedure, that is something I just inform the state. I would not take it upon myself and call a penalty to compound the situation just because I noticed the coach. Again, I would be gone and you would have to tell me about that in the locker room. I would not be doing anything. And then I would let the state decide if they needed to address any other part of this behavior. But it is not our job (at least in my state) to enforce further penalties. If I noticed a coach was in the hall way and not completely away from the court, I would do the very same.

Peace

I Can Change A Washer In A Leaky Faucet, Does That Make Me A Plumber ???
 

Unless the coach was doing something unsporting, then I would simply send an email to my assignment commissioner about the situation, and he can take it from there, possibly contacting the state high school interscholastic sports association. I am not confronting the coach if nothing unsporting is going on.

If the coach doesn't want to chance getting a technical called on her, then she shouldn't be at center court celebrating before the officials leave the floor.

That is true, but I am not going to be "That guy" after a game. If you or others want to be "That guy" go right ahead.

Peace

Okay, here's my final assessment. (subject to adjustment if anything fresh comes up) First, I'm really glad that I went to the game and witnessed this. You can read situations all day, whether actual or hypothetical, and it's still not as effective as seeing it firsthand. This is especially true on your home turf. I have called in this gym before and I have T'd this coach before. Overall, I'm with the consensus on this, if I just see her on the floor as I'm leaving, I'm not interested. As others have said, there is already a report to file because of the ejection, so this is probably worthy of mention in that report. If I get a nasty e-mail back saying the contest should have been forfeited, well I'll know next time. In the case of the doubleheader, if I'm not leaving, that would probably actually work in her favor. That game is over. On to the next one. But, having said that, she best not say one word to us or all bets are off.

As for how it was handled by the guys that night, here's my opinion. While the rule reads, "Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited," I think the only thing everyone involved agrees on is that would have been a lot worse. Good chance she honestly didn't know exactly what the rule is in this case. They said you have to leave. She dismissed them with a wave of the hand. I think that qualifies as unsportsmanlike behavior. Another T. Then she left again. I'm not thrilled but I can live with it.

I'm sure everybody in town went home complaining about the terrible officiating and being robbed of the game, but at the end of the day, the coach has nobody to blame but herself.

Nevada-here is the rule in question:

CIF-SS Bluebook Rule 125.1-Coach Ejection:
Upon the ejection of a coach from any CIF-SS contest, it is the
responsibility of the principal of said school to file a letter of explanation with the CIF Southern Section Office which includes the circumstances surrounding the matter and what action the principal has taken
to prevent a recurrence. Said correspondence is to be filed within
THREE school days of notification of the ejection. Additionally, upon ejection the coach shall be disqualified from participating in the remainder of the game and will be ineligible for the team's next contest. A second ejection will constitute a two contest suspension and a third ejection will cause suspension for the remainder of the season.

QUESTION:
What happens if unknowingly a coach or player who was ejected the previous game
participates in the next contest?
ANSWER:
Being in attendance at or coaching/playing in a contest after having been ejected
from a previous contest will result in the forfeiture of the contest.
QUESTION:
What is meant by attendance at a contest?
ANSWER:
Attendance is defined as being present at the team bench/area, inside or in the
proximity of a gymnasium, stadium or playing area. The intent of this rule is that the
ejected person is not in attendance at the contest.
QUESTION
: How does the Accountability Rule affect a coach who coaches more than one level
of a particular sport?
ANSWER
: A coach who has been ejected from a contest may not be in attendance at ANY contest prior to serving his/her mandatory suspension. (i.e.: An ejected JV coach who is also a varsity assistant may NOT be in attendance at any contest until his/her
mandatory JV suspension has been completed.)

Thank you for posting, and as I suspected that is a Southern Section policy.

Another hypothical... (Those who don't want to play, don't read this.)
 

What if, as you're tripping over her on the way off the court, she says;
(a) "Ha ha! How do you like that?! In your face!"
(b) "You guys are idiots!"
(c) "You guys are fu****g idiots!"

Then we're shooting FTs, I'm reporting it to the state, and they can determine whether her team will forfeit (always an option to forfeit after the fact). It's likely this game would be officially recorded as a 2-0 victory.

I don't presume to speak for Adam, but I would hope we would all shoot free throws in a, b, and c, whether the coach had previously been ejected or not.

This makes no sense to me. If the refs leave, the coach is fine to be there. Resolve the problem by leaving the gym.