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-   -   Technical foul on substitute—mechanics (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97048-technical-foul-substitute-mechanics.html)

bballref3966 Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:56am

Technical foul on substitute—mechanics
 
Let's say a Team A substitute is sitting on the bench wearing his warmup over his jersey. He says something to me that crosses the line and I call a technical foul. Obviously I have to get his number because it counts as one of his five. What is the best way to go about obtaining his number? Ask him to pull up his warmup shirt or tell the coach to ask him?

Also, what is the best way to report this to the table? Let's say his number is 12. "White, 12, technical foul. That counts as one of his five. That is also charged to the coach. Coach, by rule you must sit for the rest of the game."?

Thanks!

bob jenkins Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 918805)
Let's say a Team A substitute is sitting on the bench wearing his warmup over his jersey. He says something to me that crosses the line and I call a technical foul. Obviously I have to get his number because it counts as one of his five. What is the best way to go about obtaining his number? Ask him to pull up his warmup shirt or tell the coach to ask him?

I'd ask the coach for the number / name.

Quote:

Also, what is the best way to report this to the table? Let's say his number is 12. "White, 12, technical foul. That counts as one of his five. That is also charged to the coach. Coach, by rule you must sit for the rest of the game."?

Thanks!
Table doesn't care about this

Table might not need this reminder (esp. if kid is still wearing his warmups -- it's unlikely he will play enough to get 5 fouls)

bballref3966 Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:15pm

I didn't mean to include the part about the coach having to sit (obviously I would let him know).

But why not let the table know to mark the T to the coach, as well? To avoid accidentally marking two team fouls?

Thanks Bob.

Raymond Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 918818)
I didn't mean to include the part about the coach having to sit (obviously I would let him know).

But why not let the table know to mark the T to the coach, as well? To avoid accidentally marking two team fouls?

Thanks Bob.

It's not a direct T to the coach, it's an Indirect T. Important distinction.

bballref3966 Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 918820)
It's not a direct T to the coach, it's an Indirect T. Important distinction.

I understand. I guess that makes sense, though the scorebook has three spaces for technicals on the head coach so I figured we should convey that. But I appreciate the help. Just getting my feet wet.

Raymond Fri Jan 17, 2014 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 918825)
I understand. I guess that makes sense, though the scorebook has three spaces for technicals on the head coach so I figured we should convey that. But I appreciate the help. Just getting my feet wet.

The coach is allowed a combination of 2 Directs T's, or if at least one of his T's is an Indirect, a combination of 3 T's.

bob jenkins Fri Jan 17, 2014 01:45pm

You need to read the table to decide how much information to give them. If you give them extra, it's probably better to do so "face-to-face" at the table, rather than from the reporting area.

You should be able to remember how many Ts (D or I) the coach has. ;)

bballref3966 Fri Jan 17, 2014 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 918838)
The coach is allowed a combination of 2 Directs T's, or if at least one of his T's is an Indirect, a combination of 3 T's.

I am aware. Which is why I thought it would be the proper mechanic to tell the scorer when an indirect T needs to be marked on the coach. But I like what you all are saying and I appreciate it.

Nevadaref Sat Jan 18, 2014 02:21am

I never report indirect Ts to the scorer. I just inform the coach.

Camron Rust Sat Jan 18, 2014 04:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 918933)
I never report indirect Ts to the scorer. I just inform the coach.

I always report them to the scorer. Sort of hard not to since what is being reported is the direct T on the person who committed the infraction and it just gets recorded against the coach.

Nevadaref Sat Jan 18, 2014 06:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 918938)
I always report them to the scorer. Sort of hard not to since what is being reported is the direct T on the person who committed the infraction and it just gets recorded against the coach.

In that case let me clarify. I always report the direct T, but never mention the indirect. I simply inform the coach of his indirect and loss of the box.

BillyMac Sat Jan 18, 2014 08:46am

Come, Mister Tally Man, Tally Me Banana ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 918940)
I always report the direct T, but never mention the indirect.

We've got some good scorekeepers here. They're good, but not that good. In most cases, if we didn't report the indirect, it wouldn't get recorded.

Nevadaref Mon Jan 20, 2014 06:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 918945)
We've got some good scorekeepers here. They're good, but not that good. In most cases, if we didn't report the indirect, it wouldn't get recorded.

Think about this--do indirect Ts really need to be recorded? If the direct Ts are recorded, there is a record of when an indirect occurred, right?

BillyMac Mon Jan 20, 2014 07:24am

Shorthand ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 919215)
Do indirect Ts really need to be recorded? If the direct Ts are recorded, there is a record of when an indirect occurred, right?

Then do team fouls really need to be recorded? If the personal fouls (per half) are recorded, isn't that enough to figure out when the bonus occurs? Just add them up.

Does a running score really need to be recorded? If the player points are recorded, isn't that enough to figure out who wins the game? Just add them up.

Plus, "the scorer shall record ... notify an official immediately when ... the third technical foul is charged to the head coach."

If the scorer is supposed to notify the officials when a third technical foul (direct and indirect) is charged to the head coach, shouldn't he have that information recorded for easy reference?

SNIPERBBB Mon Jan 20, 2014 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 919218)
Then do team fouls really need to be recorded? If the personal fouls (per half) are recorded, isn't that enough to figure out when the bonus occurs? Just add them up.

Does a running score really need to be recorded? If the player points are recorded, isn't that enough to figure out who wins the game? Just add them up.

Plus, "the scorer shall record ... notify an official immediately when ... the third technical foul is charged to the head coach."

If the scorer is supposed to notify the officials when a third technical foul (direct and indirect) is charged to the head coach, shouldn't he have that information recorded for easy reference?

Scorer is required to keep the running total.


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