Video Request: Kentucky-Arkansas - 2:12 in Overtime (Clips Added)
 

Could you please post video of the throw-in at the 2:12 mark of overtime? The Kentucky player receives the pass right at the division line and then turns the ball over on a backcourt call.

Is there enough contact by the defender to make the guy lose his balance?

Not at that level.

You can watch the play here.

Yes. When you knock a player into a violation that would have not otherwise occurred, that is the definition of advantage.

What does this level have to do with this play? NCAA actually advocates more calls than the NF.

Peace

I'd also like to see the slip play at 15:57 in 2nd half, and the block/charge play with 9 seconds left in 2nd.

video added
 

Here are the plays...

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<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FMhVZ_lsyIw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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1. Pushing foul
2. Nothing
3. Block. Defender got there before the upward motion but then slid to his left when the shooter left the floor.

1) Foul.

2) No comment

3) Block. defender was still moving forward as player started upward motion.

Play 1: Nothing

Play 2: Charge

Play 3: Block, but it's close. Charge under NFHS: I think the defender was in the path the whole way, I don't think the lean contributed to the loss of LGP. Only issue is upward motion and whether defender was still moving forward at the time (thus losing LGP), and that is close too.

I think you have to call a push on play #1. No matter how minor that bump may have been-it is the sole cause of the violation and I am not ever going to penalize the offensive player by taking the ball from them in that situation.

I am ok with the no call on play 2. It looked to me like the defender over exaggerated the play in an attempt to draw the charge.

I would have block as well on play #3 for the same reasons mentioned in a previous post a few minutes ago, he explained it well.

Imo
 

#1 violation

#2 charge

#3 block

I have actually said to a disputing coach versions of, "there wasn't a ton of contact/may have been a weak foul call, but it caused the offense to ____(travel, step out of bounds etc.) and gotten a decent response. Any thoughts on using this explanation....?

Don't use this.

add "I have no choice but to call it."

1. Unless you believe A1's momentum was sufficient that he would have violated without the contact, you have to get that push. In this case, A1 was clearly in control of his momentum and was not going to violate without the push.

2. Great no call.

3. I think it was a block based on that baseline view, but that lean would have been hard to see from where L was, with a body between him and the play. It was really close. C had a good look and came in hard, fortunately for the crew he didn't signal the PC (not saying that's what he had, it just would have been a disaster if he came out with one). The only thing worse than a blarge, is a blarge with 9 seconds to go in regulation of a tie ballgame!

Why even say the "weak call" part?

"There wasn't a lot of contact, but it was enough to cause the opponent to violate. I'm not going to penalize the opponent for violating, when he wouldn't have done so without the slight push."

BTW...

1) Push, for reasons described above.

2) I initially had a charge, as the defender looked set a step and a half before the dribbler made contact. And after further viewing, I still have that. The defender may have oversold it a bit, but there was enough contact to justify the call.

3) I initially had a block, as the defender never seemed to get set. I see him moving right up until contact... which is made to look worse by the fact he leans back well before contact is made. And after looking at it a few times, and in slow motion, I have the same thing. However, to add, the defender steps towards the dribbler after the dribbler passes his primary defender. If the secondary defender had merely stepped sideways into the dribblers path, and got set (both feet down and straight up in verticality), then a charge. But he doesn't do that.

In regards to verticality... does losing verticality lead to a block call? Or is verticality only used in terms of illegal contact of the arm? Because when contact is made the defender is leaning back enough where he's no longer "in the tube of verticality". I mean, I think of a defender that has verticality as being in a tube, sort of like the "virtual plane of glass" that a defender on an in-bounds play can't break through.

One more thing... isn't there something about a defender leaning back during a block/charge play? Something like putting the offensive player in a dangerous position, so that he could land wrong and get hurt? I don't remember reading it ever, but it rings some kind of bell.

NO, there isn't. The offensive player puts himself in a dangerous position if they continue towards a player who is in their path.

If the defender had been in position in time (he wasn't before upward motion in this case), and the offense still hits him hard enough to be a charge even if the defender is fading back, that makes it even MORE of a charge. The lean back only lessened the magnitude of the impact.

Okay. For some reason it popped in my head that that may be a thing.

What about the part I edited into that post as you were responding, regarding verticality?

Verticality doesn't really apply (if the hands go forward and make contact, it's a illegal use of hands foul, not a block). The defender can lean backwards.

If the defender leans to the side (and there's contact), then it's a block -- so maybe you can consider that verticality -- I think of it as "outside the frame"

Just to clarify...if they lean to the side such that it causes contact that wouldn't have otherwise occurred (or causes more contact) then it is a block...and that is the case on most leans. However, leaning by itself isn't necessarily a problem. It could be a lean such that the defender was going to get crushed either way and it could still be a charge.

On the 3rd play....If Lead doesn't signal a block call I think C and Lead would come together and C would want a charge. He definitely had a better look.

Even if the Lead didn't give a preliminary, they would be no "coming together". There would be eye contact, followed by the Lead taking the call.

#1: Maybe a foul, IMO. But Calipari yelled at his player for putting himself in that position. So I will defer to the judgment of the SEC official.

#2: Nothing. This is why patient whistles are so important. I'm going to tell you exactly what an observer would have said about this play if asked: "The ball went in the basket, and the game kept on moving". Whether some folks here like it or not, I've heard enough D1 supervisors, observers, and officials talk about plays like this. The defender flopped, he is not going to get a PC call on this play. But the defender also did nothing wrong to earn a foul call against him either. To me it was incidental contact. The loose ball immediately went into the hands of A1's teammate, who puts the ball in the bucket.

#3: That's an easy block call in today's NCAA-Men's. The Lead has to pick up B2's feet to ensure it's not an RA play. So when a defender moves his feet like he did right before contact, he is going to get a blocking foul against him.

LOL!

Probably not.

1. Textbook example of a foul causing a violation. This is a foul every time.
2. Nothing in college, I'm ok with a PC in a HS game is your area calls it tight.
3. Block because of upward motion rule. In HS, I'm ok with the PC.

1. Foul, but I can see why it might not have been called. It looks like the player was off balance and there is a case to be made it was more about the player being off balance than pushed. But I think it is a foul.

2. Looks like a flop.

3. Block. Player slid over after the player went airborne.

Peace

#3 should have been a foul on blue before the B/C even happened. The contact on the dribbler as he tried to pass blue #1 is a point of emphasis this year.

1. Push
2. PC
3. Hand check/arm bar foul by B1 at the start of the move, then NCAA-M block