Coach vs Partner
 

Violation by visiting team right by the table. T calls it and then has to calm down the visiting bench. L comes to administer the throw in, tells the coaches to knock it off and play ball. Should the L have done this? If not, should he just keep his distance and wait for the throw in and keep an eye on the players?

If the T had already handled things, there isn't any need for the L to do anything unless they started back up again.

Sounds like a double warning. I don't approve of those. The second correction should involve penalizing the undesired behavior.

Did the L come to administer the throw in because they were going the other way? I.E. ball in B's front court, T calls violation so L becomes new T going the other direction?

Sounds like two different observations that had nothing to do with the other. I do not have any problem with that action. It sounds like it might have done the trick.

Peace

Yes, the violation was at half court, tableside going the other way, so the L came to the table for the throw in. In this scenario, I was the L and thought I was doing a favor by trying to support my partner and move on with the game. Right? Wrong? Indifferent?

Keep in mind, we work with somewhat random partners around here. So I'm not with my normal partner on a given evening. How would you have handled this with a normal partner or a random one?

Thanks for any input,

pfan

We work with different partners all the time too. Nothing seemed strange from what you described. I would agree with Nevada if the first official told the coach he's heard enough then told his partner that he had warned the coach, AND then the partner comes over and says the same thing. If my partner ever tells me (and this has happened only once which is surprising because I know many times my partner will tell the coach enough but not communicate to me) that he has warned the coach and I have an instance where I would *normally* warn I pull out the T stick.

Warnings in my book are per crew, not per official.

Your partner had dealt with it already, and if there was nothing further said by the coaches, there's nothing to be gained by chiming in.

If there was something further said, then I'm with Nevadaref.

[QUOTE=deecee;918034] many times my partner will tell the coach enough but not communicate to me) that he has warned the coach

Ths is why I don't whisper my "official" warnigs. I may casually tell a coach that I got it or have heard enough before his behavior gets bad but if I am going to WARN a coach my partner will have no doubts about it when I do -- especially on those occasions when I have it recorded in the book. A good voice is a valueable tool for the whole crew.

[QUOTE=Rich1;918163]Is this a Texas thing? Custom or requirement?

I worked a game recently with an R who, when I told him V's bench had been warned, told me to record it in the book.

His rationale basically was that once we warn a bench, it's going to stick, and the next behavior that raises to that level will be a T, no debate.

When I came to the table and the V coach and his assistants heard me recording the warning with the scorer, they looked on in disbelief. That was followed by the HC telling his AC's that they were to keep quiet the rest of the game. Not a peep from the AC's the rest of the game.

Maybe that was my Crew Chief's intent all along. He is a wily old veteran.

A "book" warning was given at one of our State Final games (the infamous one) where it was called out as being wrong.

I would actually like to see a rules change where that was allowed so that we could send a better message for sportsmanship. Other methods IMO do not really work very well. I hate the "stop sign" and at least it could be noted officially and probably do the very same thing that happened in this story.

Peace

Can't you use 2-3 to justify writing the warning in the book?

That is if the people you work for think 2-3 is applicable in this case. The state organization did not in the case I referenced.

Peace

This game?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dsMAUlT5v-o?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[QUOTE=justacoach;918165]I don't think its exclusive to TX and its used sparingly but I have seen it referenced in the rule book or case book. Its not handy at the moment or I'd tell you where. We do have one ref in our chapter who works only the highest level HS and a lot of college work who puts it in the book a lot. Its definetly his thing but not mine unless I really feel I need to drive my point home or have a record of it for later reference.

Poor idea IMO. If one needs to "drive my point home" then a T should be charged. All that people are doing by creating a warning which doesn't exist is 1) letting the first instance of unsporting behavior go unpenalized and 2) creating the expectation that a formal warning will be given prior to a T being charged.

At the college level with coaches making 7 figures, the expectations may well be different, but that is not the case at the HS level and your colleague is doing a disservice to the HS game and other HS officials in the area.

FWIW, the NFHS Officials' Manual reads (Warnings for behavior) are not documented in the scorebook (2.5.3.B6).

Neither NCAA rule book mentions writing warnings in the scorebook (i.e., that officials should or shoudn't do it).

Great citation for areas which follow NFHS mechanics.

For behavior that is borderline, a quick verbal warning to alert the player or coach is okay and good communication, but probably won't prove helpful. However, I will stick with my earlier post and disagree with the need for a formal warning as frequently behavior which has reached that point warrants a T and sadly too many officials fail to charge one. Seems that they seek some remedy which doesn't carry a penalty. News flash: unless a poorly behaving individual is penalized, the undesired action usually won't stop. Why several officials seem afraid to penalize is a mystery to me and only causes problems later or for other officials. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

The first T is the warning that the behavior is unacceptable. It carries a penalty of two FTs (and possession at the HS level). Failure to heed it will result in a stiffer penalty--two more FTs and a disqualification comes with the second T. The rules writers created the two T system for a reason (btw my very veteran friends tell me that it was three way back when!).

I guess this is reflective of my soccer referee training, but I look at this as a first yellow card and then a second yellow card (warrants a red). Of course, for behavior which is extreme in the first instance soccer referees may issue a red card immediately without first giving a yellow just a basketball has flagrant fouls (HS level).

Something like that.

Peace

IOW:

"How do you say 'freeze'?"

"Just shoot."