Iowa State/Baylor - Video request x2 (Clips Added)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#1 close but by the NCAA's new standards, he was certainly not there in time. He was still shifting to his left as the shooter was leaving the court. He only stopped moving left just after the shooter jump. It wasn't by much but it was there. This would even be a block in HS.

#2. I'm passing on that one.

Another example of how good officials can see the same action and disagree on the proper decisions. I have great respect for Camron, but my thoughts are as follows:

1. NFHS that's a PC. He has obtained ILGP prior to both feet of the offensive player leaving the court. NCAA it's super close. Given the new standard and how the instruction has been to call more blocking fouls, I would lean that way. I also believe that the contact being only on the left side of the defender's torso probably unduly influences the decision as it gives the impression that the defender was late in getting to his required spot.

2. The player clearly decided to hang around an extra second with no one under him. The official enforced the rule exactly as written. Unfortunately, this is not the norm and people aren't used to seeing this call made except in extreme situations. I put the T in the "correct call" column.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Another example of how good officials can see the same action and disagree on the proper decisions. I have great respect for Camron, but my thoughts are as follows:

1. NFHS that's a PC. He has obtained ILGP prior to both feet of the offensive player leaving the court. NCAA it's super close. Given the new standard and how the instruction has been to call more blocking fouls, I would lean that way. I also believe that the contact being only on the left side of the defender's torso probably unduly influences the decision as it gives the impression that the defender was late in getting to his required spot.

2. The player clearly decided to hang around an extra second with no one under him. The official enforced the rule exactly as written. Unfortunately, this is not the norm and people aren't used to seeing this call made except in extreme situations. I put the T in the "correct call" column.

#1. I felt he had LGP but the shooter was going to slip to the side and the defender slid over just a little more after the shooter was up....watch the defender's right foot slide in even after the shooter is airborne bringing the torso a bit more to the left into the shooter and causing more contact than their otherwise would have been.

#2. My first inclination on the hang was actually a T. However, after looking at it more closely, I decided there was enough uncertainty about it to warrant a T...not just the players underhim but the appearance of him just being wildly off balance more than showboating.

[bob jenkins]

I agree with Camron on both.

On the hang, the official might have anticipated it a bit -- when the legs went "up" the second time, it looked like the player was going to chin himself -- but I think he was still regaining his balance.

Maybe the player did something before to lose the benefit of the doubt.

[jeremy341a]

Although it is never called like this but why are Dunkers consistently allowed to grasp the rim at all. In a lot of cases if the never wrap their hands around the rim and merely stuff the ball through there is no one around them. It is the momentary grasp which is always permitted which then allows the defense to get close enough that the play then needs to hang from the rim. In the above example there is no safety reason as to why he needs to grasp the rim at all and especially not bring his knees up while doing it.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Although it is never called like this but why are Dunkers consistently allowed to grasp the rim at all. In a lot of cases if the never wrap their hands around the rim and merely stuff the ball through there is no one around them. It is the momentary grasp which is always permitted which then allows the defense to get close enough that the play then needs to hang from the rim. In the above example there is no safety reason as to why he needs to grasp the rim at all and especially not bring his knees up while doing it.

Good point. If he would have just thrown it down and been done with it he could have made a fairly normal, balanced landing. Instead, he chose to grasp the rim (with no defender around) putting himself in a difficult position. No doubt this is a borderline call with veteran officials here having different opinions as Nevada indicated. All I know is we had two similar plays as this one only minutes apart by the same team last week. We nailed both of them. If we had passed on the first it would have made it a little harder if we had to get the second especially if it were on the opposing team. We left the gym with no regrets but I know for sure, if we passed on the first and had to get the second, we would have felt we should have got the first one as well.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Although it is never called like this but why are Dunkers consistently allowed to grasp the rim at all. In a lot of cases if the never wrap their hands around the rim and merely stuff the ball through there is no one around them. It is the momentary grasp which is always permitted which then allows the defense to get close enough that the play then needs to hang from the rim. In the above example there is no safety reason as to why he needs to grasp the rim at all and especially not bring his knees up while doing it.

When you dunk with 2 hands on a 1 foot, running take-off, you tend to lose your balance. You're flying through the air and having both hands above your head takes your center of balance.

If you notice, almost all "hanging on the rim" discussions involve a 2-handed dunk, jumping off one foot.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When you dunk with 2 hands on a 1 foot, running take-off, you tend to lose your balance. You're flying through the air and having both hands above your head takes your center of balance.

If you notice, almost all "hanging on the rim" discussions involve a 2-handed dunk, jumping off one foot.

Only bc they choose to power it home. I have seen many drop it through without grabbing the rim. I'm not even saying that there is anything wrong with the way it is being called key that players could go without grasping the rim in most instances.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Only bc they choose to power it home. I have seen many drop it through without grabbing the rim. I'm not even saying that there is anything wrong with the way it is being called key that players could go without grasping the rim in most instances.

You know this from your experiences dunking that way in games, or it's just your opinion?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When you dunk with 2 hands on a 1 foot, running take-off, you tend to lose your balance. You're flying through the air and having both hands above your head takes your center of balance.

If you notice, almost all "hanging on the rim" discussions involve a 2-handed dunk, jumping off one foot.

out loud. That's nonsense, BNR. These guys are incredible athletes. I'm pretty sure they can take off on one foot, do a 2-hand dunk and land safely without grabbing the rim. Heck, when I was teaching elementary physical education we had 9' high rims in our gym. Many times the kids would ask me to do some dunks. I was a good athlete but certainly not incredible. It was no problem to throw down one-handed, two-handed and reverse dunks without grabbing the rim to stay balanced. That player was not off-balance when he did the two-hand dunk. He lost control of his body after he grabbed the rim. I was born at night; but it wasn't last night.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by billyu2

out loud. That's nonsense, BNR. These guys are incredible athletes. I'm pretty sure they can take off on one foot, do a 2-hand dunk and land safely without grabbing the rim. Heck, when I was teaching elementary physical education we had 9' high rims in our gym. Many times the kids would ask me to do some dunks. I was a good athlete but certainly not incredible. It was no problem to throw down one-handed, two-handed and reverse dunks without grabbing the rim to stay balanced. That player was not off-balance when he did the two-hand dunk. He lost control of his body after he grabbed the rim. I was born at night; but it wasn't last night.

Like I said, when the discussion comes up, it almost always a 2-handed, 1-foot take off...I dunked on 10ft rims, in real games.

When you are going at full game speed, not teaching gym class , your body is going in a direction (is inertia the correct term), and then both wrists hit an object that is above your head while the bottom half is still moving full speed.

You don't have to believe me. Just watch the game (college/HS games) and notice the times a dunker grasps the rim, and what kind of dunk it is.

[MathReferee]

#2 I am in the camp that I think he was trying to make sure he didn't faceplant on the landing. He let one hand go, felt he was going to fall, so he hung on with the other a little longer to regain balance. This is my opinion based on the short clip, but if there were concerns with this player or the game prior to this that the crew felt they needed to nip any unsporting acts early, then I could see why it was called.