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-   -   Player Unties Another's Shoe During FT (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96951-player-unties-anothers-shoe-during-ft.html)

grunewar Mon Jan 06, 2014 06:04pm

Player Unties Another's Shoe During FT
 
JR Smith Unties Shawn Marion's Shoe During Dirk FT - YouTube

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_qJMZHFFgEM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you see this as it's happening, you got anything? Would you blow your whistle? Stern talking to? Unsporting T?

Adam Mon Jan 06, 2014 06:08pm

Tea time.

rpirtle Mon Jan 06, 2014 06:19pm

WHACK...!!! (Probably...I hate answers that are absolute)

However, if I saw something that leads me to believe it was more harmless...such as a prank between two players that know each other (maybe they play on a "club" team together), then I might only give a stern warning. This would be due to the potential for delay of game or possible disconcertion of the shooter. But probably...WHACK...!!!

Nevadaref Mon Jan 06, 2014 06:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 917110)
Tea time.

Does this action involve physical contact during a live ball?

Adam Mon Jan 06, 2014 07:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 917115)
Does this action involve physical contact during a live ball?

Contact with the shoe laces? Go for it, I'm calling a T.

deecee Mon Jan 06, 2014 07:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 917120)
Contact with the shoe laces? Go for it, I'm calling a T.

+1, unsportsmanlike behavior.

rpirtle Mon Jan 06, 2014 08:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 917115)
Does this action involve physical contact during a live ball?

To me...it's a form of taunting. I would place this type of action along side stepping over an opponent that's on the ground. Yes...these actions are not always illegal. But in this specific instance the action is intentional physical contact by a player that is designed to provoke a response from an opponent. It is inappropriate and has nothing to do with the game of basketball.

WHACKABILITY FACTOR = 9 (out of 10...in my opinion) if deemed unsporting.

Rich Mon Jan 06, 2014 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 917120)
Contact with the shoe laces? Go for it, I'm calling a T.

It's only a T if the player's mother comes out of the stands and unties his opponent's shoe.

LeeBallanfant Mon Jan 06, 2014 09:19pm

NCAA Rule 9 Art 2 (e)

Nevadaref Mon Jan 06, 2014 09:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 917120)
Contact with the shoe laces? Go for it, I'm calling a T.

(Actions take place during a live ball.)
What would you call if a player pulled the hair of an opponent? How about untucked his jersey? Would you deem an OOB violation if the hair or shoelace of a player contacted a boundary line?

bwburke94 Mon Jan 06, 2014 09:51pm

In regards to OOB, yes.

Also, untying an opponent's shoe is not a T in my opinion.

deecee Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94 (Post 917139)
In regards to OOB, yes.

Also, untying an opponent's shoe is not a T in my opinion.

What is it?

Nevadaref Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 917149)
What is it?

What kind of foul do you assess for a non-basketball play, away from the ball, which involves physical contact during a live ball?

APG Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:17am

If you call this an intentional personal foul, you would be in such the vast minority. Making that would literally be the definition of a pioneer call.

Let's not kid ourselves. If any type of foul call is going to be made, it's going to be an unsporting T. No one is going to split hairs as to a player technically touching a player's shoe or shoelaces.

Camron Rust Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 917158)
What kind of foul do you assess for a non-basketball play, away from the ball, which involves physical contact during a live ball?

You know as well as anyone that unsportsmanlike conduct is a T whether the ball is live or not. The fact that it sometimes involves contact doesn't change the definition of unsportsmanlike conduct. It is still a T.

The presented play is not a hold, it is not a push, it is not any of the types of personal fouls as far as I can tell. Most "non-basketball" fouls involve types of contact that is normally defined as a common foul but is not a play on the ball. They are rarely unsportsmanlike, however.

I have no problem with someone calling a T for a player pulling another player's shoelace during a FT.


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