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-   -   Fighting - again (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96762-fighting-again.html)

tjones1 Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:33am
Fighting - again
 
Tried to look back as I know I posted something similar, but I didn't have any luck.

Situation:

A1, A2, A3, B1, and B2 are players and start fighting.

A4 and A5 leave the bench. A5 participates in the fight.

B3, B4, and B5 leave the bench. None of them participate.

Penalty:

All are ejected.

Players are all direct T's (no indirect to coaches):
  • A1 and B1 cancel
  • A2 and B2 cancel
  • A3 (2 free throws)
Bench who fight:
  • A5 (2 free throws) - 1 indirect to Coach A
Bench who do not fight:
  • A4 - 1 indirect to Coach A
  • B3, B4, B5 (2 free throws) - 1 indirect to Coach B
In summary:
a) A3 - 2 free throws
b) A5 - 2 free throws
c) B3, B4, B5 - 2 free throws

Cancel a) & c). Team B will shoot 2 free throws.

Coach A is charged with 2 indirect and Coach B is charged with 1 indirect.

bob jenkins Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:30am
I believe that to be correct (with the minor quibble that A4 and A5 get switched between the description and the penalties)

tjones1 Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:11pm
Thanks, Bob.

Good catch, that's been corrected for reference.

Sco53 Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:54pm
and team B gets the ball at the division line when the mess is cleaned up

BryanV21 Fri Dec 13, 2013 01:10pm
Maybe I'm just confused, but something doesn't make sense...

You don't award any free throws for A4 leaving the bench ("A4 - 1 indirect to Coach A"), but you do award free throws for B3, B4, and B5 leaving the bench ("B3, B4, B5 (2 free throws) - 1 indirect to Coach B").

You noted earlier that none of those players above participated in the fight. So why are they (or their coaches) penalized differently? I can't find a difference in them.

bob jenkins Fri Dec 13, 2013 01:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 914228)
Maybe I'm just confused, but something doesn't make sense...

You don't award any free throws for A4 leaving the bench ("A4 - 1 indirect to Coach A"), but you do award free throws for B3, B4, and B5 leaving the bench ("B3, B4, B5 (2 free throws) - 1 indirect to Coach B").

You noted earlier that none of those players above participated in the fight. So why are they (or their coaches) penalized differently? I can't find a difference in them.
For bench who leave but DO NOT participate: It's 1 indirect to the coach, no matter how many are involved. If the numbers from each team are the same, they offset (no FTs). If the numbers are not equal, it's 2 FTs TOTAL for the team that has fewer.

For bench who leave AND PARTICIPATE: 1 indirect to the coach for EACH and 1 "set of FTs" for EACH, after the offset.

BryanV21 Fri Dec 13, 2013 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 914234)
For bench who leave but DO NOT participate: It's 1 indirect to the coach, no matter how many are involved. If the numbers from each team are the same, they offset (no FTs). If the numbers are not equal, it's 2 FTs TOTAL for the team that has fewer.

For bench who leave AND PARTICIPATE: 1 indirect to the coach for EACH and 1 "set of FTs" for EACH, after the offset.
Okay! I wasn't aware of the part about a different number of players.

refiator Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:09am
Sometimes it's tough, but anything you can do to to ensure that free throws are all offset makes life easier.


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