The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   My worst game yet. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96684-my-worst-game-yet.html)

seohio Tue Dec 03, 2013 08:49pm

My worst game yet.
 
Tonight my son and I worked a game for 2 Christian Schools which do not fall under any league or State associations. They do play schools at times that do but this particular game they did not but still play by NFHS rules and hire licensed refs to work their games. 1 team was somewhat advanced. The other was not. It was 1/2 way through the first quarter before the one team even crossed half court.It became so bad that when I would call a foul or violation on this team (which they did a lot of) that even the visitors would boo. The game when finished was like 60 to 7. I let a lot go and hate doing that but this team really struggled. Also the advanced team had 17 players and the other had 6. What do you seasoned refs do in these type of games?

LeRoy Tue Dec 03, 2013 09:40pm

Some people will say we are just there to call a game. So it is what it is for the game. I sometimes I also let a lot go when the game is that lop sided. I get a long with most of the coaches I work for so they know I would do the same if it was there kids. I really like a running clock when something like the above happens. But the REAL story is I bet it is great working with your son. If he is a young official do not let him pickup any bad habits on a game like that one.

Mark Padgett Tue Dec 03, 2013 09:51pm

Since they are "independent" schools, it's your responsibility to inform them of the NF rule change - the one that says if one team gets a five point lead, you go to running clock for the rest of the game including timeouts, free throws, between quarters and halftimes. ;)

bainsey Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:34pm

We've all had those. My second year, I had 73-3.

It was 52-0 after three, and it took a technical foul (second plane violation) to get the visitors on the board. It was -- and will likely be -- the only time a coach thanked me for the T when reporting it on his team.

AremRed Wed Dec 04, 2013 02:59am

I had someone observe me once, in a JV girls game. The game was over 3 minutes into the first with the score 18-0, visitors. The observer commented that I lost focus after the game was out of hand. He was absolutely correct....I lost focus because I was trying to switch into game management mode.

I also work soccer -- and when you go to do an USSF assessment the observer will throw out his observation if the game was not challenging/difficult enough. Their rationale is that officiating a low-quality game does not provide opportunity to show your true colors as a referee.

The takeaway is this: do your best to focus, but also realize that how you do in this uncompetitive game is not a true reflection of your skill as an official. Even great officials can struggle in a terrible game.

JetMetFan Wed Dec 04, 2013 03:36am

1. Find things in your game you can work on.
2. Call fouls that need to be called so that...
3. All of the participants leave with the body parts they arrived with, preferably still attached to their bodies.

just another ref Wed Dec 04, 2013 03:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 912732)
The observer commented that I lost focus after the game was out of hand. He was absolutely correct....I lost focus because I was trying to switch into game management mode.


Tell us more about what you mean by "lost focus" and "game management mode."

AremRed Wed Dec 04, 2013 03:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 912737)
Tell us more about what you mean by "lost focus" and "game management mode."

Sure!

"lost focus" -- I started thinking about how to better manage a game that was turning into a blowout.

"game management mode" -- using preventative officiating to curb any potential problems that may arise (such as fighting/rough play, taunting, etc.) due to the losing team's frustration. This mostly includes calling more of the marginal fouls and violations committed by the winning team.

just another ref Wed Dec 04, 2013 03:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 912740)
Sure!

"lost focus" -- I started thinking about how to better manage a game that was turning into a blowout.

"game management mode" -- using preventative officiating to curb any potential problems that may arise (such as fighting/rough play, taunting, etc.) due to the losing team's frustration. This mostly includes calling more of the marginal fouls and violations committed by the winning team.


Doesn't sound like you lost focus to me. More like you shifted focus a bit, in a positive manner from where I'm sitting. Surely there was more to his critique than simply "lost focus"?

AremRed Wed Dec 04, 2013 04:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 912742)
Doesn't sound like you lost focus to me. More like you shifted focus a bit, in a positive manner from where I'm sitting. Surely there was more to his critique than simply "lost focus"?

I wish, he didn't elaborate. He wasn't an official observer, just one of the varsity officials on the game after mine. He arrived early and I asked him to give me notes on how I did. I stuck around for his game and quickly realized the sad truth -- I'm already better than that guy.

just another ref Wed Dec 04, 2013 04:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 912746)
I wish, he didn't elaborate. He wasn't an official observer, just one of the varsity officials on the game after mine. He arrived early and I asked him to give me notes on how I did. I stuck around for his game and quickly realized the sad truth -- I'm already better than that guy.

Even if that's true, it's still a good idea to ask for his opinions after watching your game. Anything he might say has potential to provoke thought which may help you to improve, whether you agree with it or not.

AremRed Wed Dec 04, 2013 04:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 912749)
Even if that's true, it's still a good idea to ask for his opinions after watching your game. Anything he might say has potential to provoke thought which may help you to improve, whether you agree with it or not.

I agree, and I do that quite often. However I left out the part where he said "I know you want to do it by the book but....". That's pretty much when I stopped listening.

just another ref Wed Dec 04, 2013 04:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 912751)
I agree, and I do that quite often. However I left out the part where he said "I know you want to do it by the book but....". That's pretty much when I stopped listening.

I'd have to hear the rest before I could condemn that statement. In a JV girls game that opens with an 18-0 run a lot of things often are not done by the book............with everyone's blessing.

Adam Wed Dec 04, 2013 09:13am

I once had a game that, at half time, was 39-0. Ended up 57-1, and I had the same observation given by one of the following officials who caught the end of the 2nd quarter. We had started to lose focus right before the half. I'm not sure how to describe what it looked like, but it was obvious to us (we had discussed it during a TO with a couple of minutes left in the 2nd) and it was obvious to the official in the stands.

RookieDude Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:18am

Games like these are like putting "lipstick on a pig"...

no matter what you do, you can't make em look good!

Rufus Wed Dec 04, 2013 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 912736)
1. Find things in your game you can work on.
2. Call fouls that need to be called so that...
3. All of the participants leave with the body parts they arrived with, preferably still attached to their bodies.

This, especially #1. How many times, without having to do countless wreck games, do you have the opportunity to work on areas of officiating? Things like clock management, rotations, table communications, mechanics - it's all there and the great thing is you're getting paid to do it (note I didn't say you're mailing in the effort, just that you're also taking the opportunity to polish aspects of your game).

bob jenkins Wed Dec 04, 2013 01:22pm

"My worst game yet."

You're still young. It will get worse.

DRJ1960 Wed Dec 04, 2013 01:45pm

1 vs 8 Girls AAA District Tourney blowout... final score was 80 something to something in the teens. Partners wanted to know why I was still running in the 4th qtr....

dee33 Wed Dec 04, 2013 01:54pm

Had to
 
I had one last night 114-14 i had to slow the game down mentally and really just worked on mechanics court movement and game management it was rough especially when the team was up 40-2 at the end of the first quarter.

SNIPERBBB Wed Dec 04, 2013 08:39pm

Hmm, sounds like the JH game in front of ours, minus the booing, the same night. The varsity girls game was about as ugly, 60-70pt blowout and the boys game was a 4pt contest.

Our game was in Gallipolis how about yours?

seohio Wed Dec 04, 2013 09:48pm

Yes....same game

Sharpshooternes Sat Dec 07, 2013 01:11am

Mine was tonight
 
Doing a little preseason tournament JV men's side. Just tons and tons of fouls. Double bonus by the third quarter. At least 3 fouled out. And foul count was probably 50. They just would not stop it. We let a bunch go, but it never got out of hand it. It was a twenty point blow out so not that bad score wise. Losing coach got irate when I had to call a DOG after a warning. First one, defender but not the one guarding the thrower inner steps a good foot over the line. Second, A1 is standing a ways from the line and then makes a pass toward the court except B1's hand is through the plane and contacts the ball.

Other thing he got upset about was his player was making a drive to the baker on transition has 3 defenders around the one in front has LGP easily and jumps to block the shot, straight up. Ball handler collides into the defender which I no call because he didn't really displace him. Coach complains that there "was a lot of contact on that play" "if anything it was a charge coach" "but he didn't even keep his feet" "coach the defender can jump or move any direction as long as it isn't into the ball handler. He doesn't have to be planted" He looked at me incredulously. "That's the worst explanation I have ever heard." The coach was lucky not to by a cup 'o T. I debated whacking him once when he said, "even your partner thinks your terrible." What do you think? Did that comment deserve a technical. I think it fits in the personal category now but meh, I am content either way on this one.

AremRed Sat Dec 07, 2013 01:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 913248)
Doing a little preseason tournament JV men's side. Just tons and tons of fouls. Double bonus by the third quarter. At least 3 fouled out. And foul count was probably 50. They just would not stop it. We let a bunch go, but it never got out of hand it. It was a twenty point blow out so not that bad score wise. Losing coach got irate when I had to call a DOG after a warning. First one, defender but not the one guarding the thrower inner steps a good foot over the line. Second, A1 is standing a ways from the line and then makes a pass toward the court except B1's hand is through the plane and contacts the ball.

Other thing he got upset about was his player was making a drive to the baker on transition has 3 defenders around the one in front has LGP easily and jumps to block the shot, straight up. Ball handler collides into the defender which I no call because he didn't really displace him. Coach complains that there "was a lot of contact on that play" "if anything it was a charge coach" "but he didn't even keep his feet" "coach the defender can jump or move any direction as long as it isn't into the ball handler. He doesn't have to be planted" He looked at me incredulously. "That's the worst explanation I have ever heard." The coach was lucky not to by a cup 'o T. I debated whacking him once when he said, "even your partner thinks your terrible." What do you think? Did that comment deserve a technical. I think it fits in the personal category now but meh, I am content either way on this one.

Was this college or high school? Why would you call a DOG on a player not guarding the thrower?

Could have tech'd the coach as soon as he made that first comment. Second comment is automatic.

bob jenkins Sat Dec 07, 2013 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 913248)
Second, A1 is standing a ways from the line and then makes a pass toward the court except B1's hand is through the plane and contacts the ball.

If the ball had been released, then this is legal.

Plus what Arem said.

JetMetFan Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 912822)
1 vs 8 Girls AAA District Tourney blowout... final score was 80 something to something in the teens. Partners wanted to know why I was still running in the 4th qtr....

Answer: “Because you never know who is watching.”

JetMetFan Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 913248)
Doing a little preseason tournament JV men's side. Just tons and tons of fouls. Double bonus by the third quarter. At least 3 fouled out. And foul count was probably 50. They just would not stop it. We let a bunch go, but it never got out of hand it. It was a twenty point blow out so not that bad score wise. Losing coach got irate when I had to call a DOG after a warning. First one, defender but not the one guarding the thrower inner steps a good foot over the line. Second, A1 is standing a ways from the line and then makes a pass toward the court except B1's hand is through the plane and contacts the ball.

Other thing he got upset about was his player was making a drive to the baker on transition has 3 defenders around the one in front has LGP easily and jumps to block the shot, straight up. Ball handler collides into the defender which I no call because he didn't really displace him. Coach complains that there "was a lot of contact on that play" "if anything it was a charge coach" "but he didn't even keep his feet" "coach the defender can jump or move any direction as long as it isn't into the ball handler. He doesn't have to be planted" He looked at me incredulously. "That's the worst explanation I have ever heard." The coach was lucky not to by a cup 'o T. I debated whacking him once when he said, "even your partner thinks your terrible." What do you think? Did that comment deserve a technical. I think it fits in the personal category now but meh, I am content either way on this one.

Not to pile on but yeah, you bonked on the second throw-in situation (NFHS 9-2-10 – I’m assuming it was HS since you said 3rd quarter).

As for the conversation with the HC, that was way too much dialogue especially in a situation where he’s getting his rear end handed to him and is probably looking for a way to complain. First and foremost, he didn’t ask a question he made a statement. Leave that alone. If he eventually asks a reasonable question just say, “Coach, the defender had legal guarding position” and move on. If it somehow gets to the “even your partner thinks you’re terrible” line, whack him.

Camron Rust Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 913248)

Other thing he got upset about was his player was making a drive to the baker on transition.

I'd be upset with my player about that too. They don't get to make dough until they get a professional contract.

Sharpshooternes Mon Dec 09, 2013 03:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 913268)
Not to pile on but yeah, you bonked on the second throw-in situation (NFHS 9-2-10 – I’m assuming it was HS since you said 3rd quarter).

As for the conversation with the HC, that was way too much dialogue especially in a situation where he’s getting his rear end handed to him and is probably looking for a way to complain. First and foremost, he didn’t ask a question he made a statement. Leave that alone. If he eventually asks a reasonable question just say, “Coach, the defender had legal guarding position” and move on. If it somehow gets to the “even your partner thinks you’re terrible” line, whack him.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. The player had his hand through the plane when the throw was released and he touched it on the outside of the plane. The DOG T was definitely warranted.

Sharpshooternes Mon Dec 09, 2013 03:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 913279)
I'd be upset with my player about that too. They don't get to make dough until they get a professional contract.

Stupid IPad autocorrect.

Sharpshooternes Mon Dec 09, 2013 03:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 913251)
Was this college or high school? Why would you call a DOG on a player not guarding the thrower?

Could have tech'd the coach as soon as he made that first comment. Second comment is automatic.

9-2-10 I called it on the player not guarding the thrower inner because the book doesn't differentiate between who is guarding the thrower. It only says that the opponent can not have any part through the plane. Doesn't say who or how far away they are, although in this case, they were close enough to be guarding the thrower.

bob jenkins Mon Dec 09, 2013 08:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 913412)
9-2-10 I called it on the player not guarding the thrower inner because the book doesn't differentiate between who is guarding the thrower. It only says that the opponent can not have any part through the plane. Doesn't say who or how far away they are, although in this case, they were close enough to be guarding the thrower.

I was not there so I'm not going to comment on the plays directly, but imo you shouldn't be a plumber on these calls.

For example, if there's any doubt whether the second player broke the plane before the ball was released, let it go. As a general guideline, it should be (a) obvious that he broke the plane, and (b) early enough that you can blow the whistle while A is still holding the ball.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1