Travesty or Travel...
 

...or something in between.

I will pose a question to the forum...and after some responses, I will tell you about a situation that happened to me and my crew in an 8th grade B game.

I will also state to you how I plan on NOT being :o after the game AGAIN.

SITUATION:

Coach A tells official, prior to the game, that he has a player that has Down's Syndrome. Coach A states that he would like the officials to relax the travel call on said player. Coach A goes on to explain how another team "exhibited poor sportsmenship" by passing the ball to the player that the DS kid was guarding...thus, allowing the player with the ball to score "easily". (The DS boy did not have a clue how to guard an offensive player.)

Coach wants special privledges for this "special" player.

OK bigtimer...whatta ya do?

What exactly would the coach of A want us to do about B taking advantage of their personnel on the floor? Team B is under no obligation to oblige for any player.

Nothing. Our job is to enforce the rules. If a coach puts a player out there, we are to treat him like any other player. No exceptions for special cases.

I've seen this happen a time or two in my career...not so much the coach asking for slack but where a team has put in a player that was clearly not a typical player. Recognizing that and the fact that the game wasn't close, and it being very obvious that the kid wasn't getting any advantage at all and wasn't going to change the outcome. I chose to be particularly lenient on the kid....3 steps, 4, even 5...keep playing. I think he shot the ball once or twice and it wan't anywhere near going in. Eventually, I'd have to call something if it went too far, but it didn't get that far. It was usually, just shuffling the feet around while he was trying to figure out what to do with the ball.

After not calling anything on the first situation in that game, I noticed the other coach nodding his approval with the situation and the kid's coach nodding a thank you. These were two very small Christian schools who were both interested in playing but were more interested in character and sportsmanship.

I'd have a similar thing happen a few other times too. In every case, once I realize the player isn't doing anything that will have any impact, I treat it the same. One a few occasions, I've had players on the other team initially object but a very quick and quiet word made them aware of what was really going on and their good character let the situation be.

Wiggle Room ...
 

2013-14 BASKETBALL EDITORIAL CHANGES

3-5-1 Note Each state association may, in keeping with applicable laws, authorize
exceptions to NFHS playing rules to provide reasonable accommodations to individual
participants with disabilities and/or special needs, as well as those individuals with
unique and extenuating circumstances. The accommodations should not fundamentally
alter the sport heighten risk to the athlete/others or place opponents at a disadvantage.

The NFHS recognizes the need to accommodate individual participants with disabilities, or special needs. Some may wait for their state association to make some type of ruling (per 3-5-1 Note), but others may allow the officials, coaches, and administrators, at the game site, to get together and make some reasonable accommodations that won't impact the game. Put me in the later group, but I would have no problem if anyone wants to be in the former group.

1. What does this mean? Does this mean provide accommodations so that these players may participate? Does it mean call the game easier on them? Both? My guess is the first.

2. My state association has not authorized any exceptions I know of

3. Regardless of if I am instructed to call the game easier on these players, I can do nothing to prevent an opposing coach from attacking that player. Not my prerogative. As above... "Team B is under no obligation to oblige for any player".

I would have mentioned it to the coach of the other team, that way when the inevitable travel or double-dribble occurs, there is no argument.

Great find Billy.

Here is what happened:

The special needs player, from Team A, was substituted into the game with around 3 minutes left in the contest.

Team A had fought their way back into the game after being down by 12 points.

Around 2 minutes to go... the special needs player, A1, found himself now holding onto the ball in frontcourt. Player B1 looked like he wanted to take the ball but thought better of it and just stood there in a defensive position.

With the clock winding down...A1 decided to take off running (more like shuffling) toward the basket. A1 did not even attempt to dribble...he just shuffled toward the basket from the C's side (me). He went about 8' and stopped. Then he turned around and started "running" 8' back up to the top of the key on my side, C...yes we were doing 3-whistle training. A1 then stopped for a second time, and after a couple seconds, decided to "run" back toward the endline....this tiime about 10'. A1 stopped again...and for the 4th time started to "run" into the middle of the key. Before he could stop and do it all over again...I nailed him with the travel....good strong whistle, sharp mechanics, and away we went.:rolleyes:

Coach A pulled A1 from the game...and his chance for glory was over. He looked very upset and agitated as he sat out the remainder of the game on the bench.
And, of course, I felt terrible for the boy.

Team A never completed their come back...and lost the game.

(Why in the He!! did Coach A wait untill the 4th quarter, of a tight game, to put the special needs player in, and THEN GIVE HIM THE BALL? I think he set him up to fail...but, that's just me. Why not let him play in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarters?)

...there is more, but I am interested to see your responses to the game action, before I go there.

P.S. I think I have a "cure" for this feeling I have...I'll tell you later what it is.

Honestly, I'll pick up on the disability on my own and adjust. I won't bother addressing it with the other coach unless he starts to whine.

As for hoping the other coach doesn't take advantage of the mismatch, that's not my job. The lesson he wants to teach his players is on him.

Dan, I probably would have done it the same way you did.

Dude, stop being cryptic...just spit it out.

I think I would call a travel earlier. The coach from team A needs to pick his spots to use this player better. In a game that is close towards the end I would have a hard time ignoring such blatant violations. As far as the other team running plays for the person that is being guarded by the player with the disability, that is on them. Nothing we can do to prevent that.

In an 8th grade game, I can over looked a step or two...I can't see myself overlooking a player running with the ball for 8' once...much less 2 or more times.

Bingo!!

You read my mind.

I was to lazy/complacent/busy training/blah blah blah...too do exactly that!

And that is my "CURE".

Get both coaches together PRIOR TO THE GAME...and discuss exactly what THEY want to do. Here is one instance where they are going to determine what "ACCOMODATIONS" we will "PROVIDE".

If one Coach does not want a player running all over the court, without even attempting to dribble...that is what we shall do....The Coach that says, "no way"... will now be the "bad guy"...because BOTH COACHES will have to agree... It is now up to them. They BOTH MAY alter the rules, kind of like THEIR rule of no "PRESSING IN THE BACK COURT".

I have talked all this over with my assigner...and he agrees...let the coaches decide together what THEY want to do. It's on them.

I will also be notifying our association, via email and at the next meeting, of what "procedure" to use.

LOL....OK, OK,

1) I am at work...typing when I get a chance.

2) I wanted to hear from Adam and Camron before I "spit it out".

3) I wanted to tease you...be cryptic...or something like that.;)

After the game...I was getting my coat...getting the "nice job" stuff from the table and other coach...when Coach A started in on me...

"I hope you sleep well tonight...I can't believe it...calling travel on a Down's Syndrome kid...I hope you sleep well..."

He kept repeating that line about half a dozen times.

One of my partners came up and said, "let's just walk away"...but, I wouldn't...I felt bad and for some reason I was going to get this resolved.

I calmly told the coach that I misunderstood what he wanted. I thought that he DIDN'T WANT THE BOY TO WALK ALL OVER THE PLACE. I calmly apologized, told him I was sorry...told him again, that I misunderstood.

He ended up shaking my hand, accepted my apology, and that was it.

I felt I was in a NO WIN SITUATION. If you knew me...you would know that I don't usually take ANY garbage from a M.S. coach...I even surprised myself...but, it didn't hurt me to eat some crow...and in a way, I agree with the coach. (As long as the other coach is on board)

Thus, our new procedure.

Get both Coaches to agree on what they want in these SPECIAL situations.

It would have been different if the team had the lead when putting in the player with a disability. Because, in that case, they would gain a big advantage by having a player allowed to break the rules like that. But, the way I see it, the team was only hurting themselves while helping the other team, so why not accommodate them?

I can see this happening during the last game of the season, and the player with a disability being a senior. The coach wants to give him/her their moment. I wouldn't want to be the guy that ruins that, would you?

1) I agree with the "Hey, let's get coach B over here so we can all discuss this" philosophy.

2) There's a difference between "moving the pivot foot without gaining any distance" and "running back and forth like the rabbit in the shooting gallery."

"Okay, coach, I'll see what I can do. I assume you don't mean to use him in a situation where the outcome is still in doubt?"

,

I'll sleep just fine. What you were asking for in that situation was not reasonable. GOOD NIGHT."



Both coaches will never agree to this.

"Okay, Coach B, Coach A has a player who is handicapped, and he wants us not to call any violation on him, even if he is about to score the winning basket. That okay with you?"

Sure, when you take the situation there then it's unreasonable, and it's silly to expect both coaches to be okay with it. But that's not what we're talking about. Anybody can take something to the extreme to "win" an argument, but how about we stick with the situation as described?

And what part of the country do you live in where empathy doesn't exist? We're talking about a kid with downs syndrome that wants to play basketball, not some war where one side is telling the other not to use real bullets.

Sucks that sportsmanship doesn't exist in some places.

It doesn't have anything to do with empathy. Nobody said the kid shouldn't play basketball either. It is great that this kid and his parents want him to be included in these activities, but if his disability is such that he cannot participate at a level that is even remotely within the rules he and his parents should explore other options for him to continue to play basketball. Around here, they have Special Olympic teams for this purpose. I have volunteered to officiate their games many times and from my perspective, the kids enjoy playing games against and with kids that have similar disabilities and abilities as they themselves have.

Unfortunately, not everybody lives in areas with other options. And you're forgetting that we're talking about KIDS. It's people with that attitude that's the problem with youth sports.

It's freaking middle school, b squad. This IS the 'other options' IMO. He'll probably be done after this season.

I probably would have likely responded like Dan in the game, and any guilty feelings I had would have disappeared when the coach started acting like a dick after the game.

Let Me Win, But If I Can Not Win, Let Me Be Brave In The Attempt ...
 

... then don't work any Special Olympics Unified Games in your area. Officials that work these games acquire proper judgment for various situations as the game progresses. You have players of all different levels of ability, or disability, on the court at the same time. It's actually quite easy when you have coaches, players, fans, and administrators, all on the same page.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.47359...25938&pid=15.1

Different environment/venue than a middle school game a la the OP

APG, When You Speak French, It Drives Me Wild (Gomez Addams) ...
 

Absolutely. Thus ...

(APG: I fixed your post. I finally got to use my high school French. It's only been forty years. Madame Schieffler would be so proud.)

Oh yes my friend...we WILL have an agreement BEFORE the game starts.

And now that I have experience to draw from...I will even give examples of what will be tolerated.

If BOTH coaches agree to let the special player run around "like a rabbit in a shooting gallery"...that's what we will do. If the opposite coach wants to play defense that's his perogative.

Now...if Coach B says, "No way, treat him like all the other players"...I step in and earn my $$$. I manage this game.

"Coaches, here is what we are going to do...the special player is GOING to get some leeway. Now, he isn't going to be able to run around like 'a rabbit in a shooting gallery'...but, he is going to get a FEW steps. If I see a big advantage...we will adjust. Coach B, if you feel the need to take the ball away from this special needs player or score relentlesly on him...then that is your choice...do what you think is using your best sportsmanship attitude."


No surprises.

Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't ...
 

This (above) is what makes this situation so difficult. Even for me, and I've been involved with Special Olympics, as a volunteer, or with Unified Games, as a volunteer official, for over thirty years.

Early in this "regular (not Special Olympics, not Special Olympics Unified Games)" middle school game, or late in a lopsided "regular" middle school game, I've got no problem giving the kid several steps, several times, until I sound my whistle; assuming that the coaches, administrators, and my partner (and, possibly even the players, and the fans), are all on board.

Regardless of what has been "agreed to", this still has potential for problems in a competitive game.

"I didn't know you were gonna let him do that much!!"

The integrity of the game itself is still our first priority. I am all for cutting a player some slack, whether for a handicap or simply lack of talent, but not at the expense of the outcome of the game.

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

I'm not on the court to make sure people respect the game of basketball, I'm there to make sure the kids are able to learn and have fun in a safe environment. I'd hope people respect the game at the same time, but that's more of a side effect to what I do, not the reason I do it.

I don't do what I do for the integrity of the game. I do it for those kids, because a while ago somebody did the same for me. And knowing how much fun I had, knowing how much I learned, I want to help another generation of kids feel the same way.

While I don't like having to ignore certain things, I understand that in order to do what's right sometimes I have to. So if a coach wants to say "to hell with winning", and give a child with Downs Syndrome his moment, then who am I to stand in his way?

But even if I do accept the whole "protect the integrity of the game" thing, then please explain to me how allowing that kid with Downs Syndrome to get away with traveling hurts the integrity of the game. Did fans in that game start looking down on basketball? Did they decide to switch their kids to wrestling or another winter sport?

98% of the time it doesn't. What I'm saying is if the outcome of the game is in doubt and this player is on the court, you may be asked to make a decision. Will you call a travel on him just like anybody else, or will you allow him to climb a ladder and score the winning basket. Hopefully somewhere in between, but be aware of the potential to have to draw a line.

I'm looking at the situation described in the OP.

If you want to change the situation, then fine. The way I do things may change, but the bottom line remains the same... what's best for those kids? That may be calling the travel, but it also may be ignoring it and smiling along with the coach, his players, and hopefully everybody else in the gym.

I hear you JAR...and I appreciate you input...

But, if I'm going to error...in this case...I'm going to error on the side of the handicaped kid instead of the outcome of an 8th grade B game.

Again...the coaches can complain all they want...but, this stuff is going to be MOSTLY worked out before the game even begins. If some Middle School Coach wants to give me grief...I'll put on my big boy ref pants and handle it.;)

Yep.

Your crew? Do you do three man grammar school where you live?

Honestly, common sense in these situations. People either get it or they don't.

As Bob said, he shuffles feet, nothing starts, he's heading for concession stand you have to call something not to make a mockery of game.

Love your description how you 'nailed' him with a travel call. Attaboy

Honestly...I see post from some on this discussion that should never work a middle school game (never mind the problem with them getting a heart and grasp of common sense). This didn't happen in the finals of the NCAA tournament on national television. It is a flippin' middle school GAME for crying out loud.

I'm giving the kid some slack...especially since in the OP his team is still LOSING. If the opposing coach starts chirping about it he gets one warnings (maybe) before I nail him with a T...trust me, I will find a reason.

If my partner doesn't like it, he can make the calls or block me in the future. If the coach wants to scratch me from all future contest...be my guest, I don't do this for the money or prestige.

Thanks for your input...

My crew? Yeah...you know...like "my partners".

We use the oportunity to do three "man" training when doing M.S. or "grammer" school as you put it.

Yes...I "nailed him with the travel call". I was being facitious.

Attaboy?

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

I probably would have drawn the line about the same as Dan did. I might have tried to get the coach's eye contact after the 2nd blatant ignored travel and try to indicate we were getting near the line though - maybe he would have called a TO.

So, you're saying we should equally enforce all rules form NBA to 3rd grade beginners?

I call a multitude of different levels of ball from "little dribblers" (4th thru 6th grades) to college (NCAA-W Div II & III)...up to semi-professional (ABA). Among the most gratifying and rewarding events I work are the Area & Regional Championships for Special Olympics (Texas).

In these tournaments teams are classified by their skill level...which also could include any physical or mental impairment of individual players. Some divisions mix "Unified" players (referred to by some as "normal"...whatever that is) with the special needs players. As you might guess officials in this type of environment really need the guidance of coaches regarding how the game should be officiated.

I've used my experiences in the above games to develop a method of approaching any game or tournament where the players might not be skilled...or where the skill level of two opponents is not the same. I approach both coaches prior to the game. We go over stuff like: 1.) Specific skills they've been working on during the season (that they want called); 2.) Any special rules they may use (ie; bonus on 10th foul, shoot only 1 FT; etc.).

It works for me.

The NBA has different rules then the NCAA for a reason. And the NCAA has different rules then the NF for a similar reason.

I do not work the NBA or 3rd grade beginners, so this is not a dilemma for me.

Peace

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO.";)

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

(I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these "ideas"...they were just thrown out there.)

It's interesting...this OP has actually caused a lot of discussion around here...even to the point that some of the football officials have heard about it and talked about it during post-game refreshments.

Again, I like the idea of talking to BOTH Coaches BEFORE the game and get these things ironed out.

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.:D

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit);)

Honestly, Jeff - this is really out of place. On one hand (in one post), you say you don't have to worry about NBA or 3rd grade games, and on the other (in the very next post), you chide the way people who DO work those games handle such games. You can't tell us your opinion doesn't matter because you don't have to walk in these shoes, and then insist on an opinion that those who are walking in those shoes should do things differently.

It is out of line because someone makes a straw man argument about the NBA to the lowest level?

Sorry, but you lost me there.

And at the HS level and college level, this would not be much of an issue in my experience.

Peace

And that is fine. When you and others work this kind of game you have every right to make that decision. I am honestly not going to care either way, I just will not be doing such a thing. And the younger the kids I am not going to be ultra technical on traveling and all pivot foot movements, but I am not going to just ignore a rule just for one kid as was suggested or asked to the officials in this situation. And I will sleep well at night doing just that.

Peace

I guess this made you laugh (not sure why). But I was not the one who invoked the NBA or other levels into this discussion. I just know what I am going to do and not do.

Peace

What an interesting topic and discussion:

This could happen 100 times and be handled differently and correctly each time. Just because no one on the floor is a professional doesn't mean we can't act professionally.

There are certain phrases like, "do something before someone get hurt", "dont cheat the kids", and "the game is for the kids". These are normally used is small weak minded people who would suggest officials have alterior motives. Not by someone looking to achieve something greater than the game.

We all remember J-Mack the autistic kid from NY who hit all those 3 pointers and won an ESPY. It would be interesting to know if his situation was discussed proior to the game. My guess is no it wasn't. But the other team had to know what was going on in the gym. He only went in when his team was up by 20, so the coach was confident he couldn't blow the lead.

He may not have been as disabled as most, but I wonder what those Refs would have done in that situation had there been a minor violation?

No ... his statement was also meaningless.

Of course it wouldn't - no one's saying it would.

MD,

I do not know what you want me to say. I cannot stand when people try to play, "It is about the kids" card as if that is why we all do this. I do not officiate for the kids, I officiate for the game. I love the game and the kids happened to be there, but not the reason I leave my house. Most of the time I will not see most of the kids ever again. And it would be unethical or unprofessional to have a relationship beyond working the game for the most part. I just think people need to stop saying this as they appear to not know what they really mean when they make this statement.

Peace

Not really asking you to say anything, tbh. More the opposite, actually.

That's perfectly fine, and completely appropriate at the level you officiate.

Just don't extend that to the levels that OTHER people are working - such as the level discussed in this thread - and then get on people when they DO officiate "for the kids", where it's appropriate. I promise you that if they all called 3rd grade games (or even 7th/8th B-level games) with the same level of scrutiny you do for your games - they would chase away a lot of players - perhaps even some that would have otherwise eventually become good players at your level. And YOUR game would then suffer. Lower level games ARE "for the kids" - and those kids become your players eventually.

There is a team in my area that has this situation. Every official in our association knows that this team has this kid. EVERY one of us has a big leash when this kid comes in the game. We have never had a conversation with any coach about it, and have never had a problem. People who complain about this, or referee this like it's the NCAA or NBA championship, just don't get it, and you never will. Who cares that a special needs kid in junior high ball gets a break.

[QUOTE=RookieDude;911118]I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

I am not an “expert”…I just know what works for me.
I am not EVER comfortable doing something “tricky” or deceptive…even for a good cause. I prefer calling what was agreed upon in the pre-game meeting with the coaches.
If I understand what you’re saying…I would be determining when a timeout is called and granted for Coach A. That has the potential to put me at odds now with BOTH coaches. In addition, doing that could give the appearance that I am no longer an impartial participant.
Again, deceptive (saying whistle was inadvertent and it’s not)…and never a good idea.
Too heartless…
Sorry, I don’t know who Dan is.

I guess the best way to put it is this. If both coaches can come to an agreement that certain accommodations in how strictly the rules will be enforced...then I will do my best to comply. For the most part I will not be setting aside any rules...nor will I be taking on any of the coaches responsibilities.

It's a balancing act...with no net. And I'm trying to get the coaches and all the kids all to the other side safely..

Great Feedback...with good justifications.

Sorry, Dan is talking in third person.:o

Dan...as the OP stated (and without talking to BOTH coaches BEFORE the game) called a travel on the boy after he ran...stopped...ran....stopped...ran...stopped...r an. On the 4th time running without attempting a dribble.

It caught me by surprise. It was a great learning oportunity and one I will pass on to "my" association.

Come up with a plan, including both Coaches, prior to the game.

I re-read your posts and "for the most part" I agree.;)

When I was in Montana there was a team with a DS player on it. This kid could shoot the lights out...no seriously! Played JV for like 5 years and was a crowd favorite in every small town I officiated him in.

It was never discussed with the coaches or anything but everyone knew that he would get a little leeway. He didn't get alot though, a stutter step here an extra slide there if he couldn't stop. But it was always funny to watch him hit a "J" in some defenders face and then leave his arm in the air....priceless

I remember the first time I saw him, I walk on the court ant the team has 6 kids...one with DS. Needless to say I was initially like WTF? By the end of the year I had seen that team 6 or 7 times and cherished it every time. I watched him drop nine 3's on 9-10 shooting one night...team only had like 40 total and they lost by mercy rule but I tell you what, the place was electric. He was called for travel from time to time and double dribble was automatic but there was never a travesty of the game in any sense.

I love what I do...been doing this for years...but until I started "enjoying" it and letting things like this go, I never knew how much I loved calling games. Some of you need to lighten up and enjoy this stuff as opposed to feeling that it threatens your authority by doing so.

Oh and I also challenge anyone that loves this to get out and officiate a special olympics...it will change you for the better I guarantee.

"It's for the kids" is NOT crap. The rules are there to create an even playing environment so that they can learn and have fun at the same time. They're not there so officials can be hard-asses about them.

It's amazing how many officials take themselves so seriously.

EDIT: Then again, perhaps I should say the game is about the players... whether they are in 3rd grade or professional. This particular case just dealt with kids is all.

we need a "like" button