Politics of Basketball
 

Recently my association held elections for officers and board members and all the candidates had one common theme: THEY WERE ANGRY

The feelings of resentment and feeling left out of the "BIG GAMES" bubbled over and were put out in the open for all to hear! I have heard private complaining and whispers over the years but nothing so public and with so much fire..words like corruption and favortism were tossed around loosely.

Your thoughts on how much these type of feelings exists in your world? Why do people get so riled up over high school basketball?:confused:

My guess is pride, ego, competition. They get to tell their buddies they worked that "big" game last week.

Most of us that are or were officials were also athletes and competitors previously. As such, we still have the competitive drive.

Some officials manifest that by comparing themselves to other officials and the number and/or percieved "quality" of the games assigned. Many officials that feel slighted that they are not getting the BIG games will start to blame "politics", the "good ole boy network" and "such and such assignor" doesn't like me. Anything but take a realistic look at their game and what they can do to improve.

Without knowing anything about your association and making some assumptions, I do find it interesting that some of the ANGRY officials have decided to become involved in the leadership of the organization instead of just sitting back and complaining about it. Hopefully, it works out well for your group.

One reason I am happy our association has no assigning function. Other associations in our state who do have similar issues to what you have expressed, though maybe not to that extent.
If it's as bad as say, would an initiative to separate the two be practical for your group?

Happened here...many unhappy people, commissioner voted out, he starts rival organization, big-time split, good ole boy politics within the school system, etc, etc. So I work my public school games for an out-of-town board and private schools for my original board.

Sometimes this is reality, trust me.

I love these angry guys. They make it so easy for the cream to rise to the top and get more of those great games.

This has nothing to do with basketball honestly. People that are competitive on some level, want to achieve everything they can for as long as they can. When they fail or lose out those people cannot handle the lack of success or if others get successful at their expense. This is pure life. It could be about a woman, a job opportunity or who has the bigger house. It is all the same with human beings and it comes out in this area of our lives just like anything else. Basketball officiating IMO is no different. This is just another year of the same thing.

Peace

I am well aware of that and did not mean to imply that these things don't happen at all.

However, in my experience, they are blamed for a perceived lack of advancement far more than they are actually responsible for.

Sermon
 

One of our members gave an impassioned speech against our board (I'm not on it) last night. He doesn't think his schedule is fair and made it abundantly clear that he has no respect for the board and told the evaluators "judge not that ye be not judged".

Well said. And really sums it up perfectly. Every association I've been a member of (there are 8) it's been the same. Human nature.

Cream wasn't rising to the top around here. In these parts, the cream would go to camps and better themselves and get ridiculed by veterans for "trying to be college officials." The HS officiating situation is a joke where I live, that's why I travel up the road to work public school games.

Um, isn't that what evaluators are supposed to do?

I've been in such meetings, where folks were running for the board, even running for the assigner's position. The speech was an angry plea for "fairness" and "objectivity."

I don't know how badly he lost.

Does your association put 1st year officials in hotly contested Varisty games? My new one does. I guess their thinking is that since we do three-man for everything the 2 experienced guys can cover the third guy. That my friend is a joke....

Did I read that correctly? 1st year officials (Rookies) are put on varsity games?? What's the punchline?

What difference does it make if the best officials work the so-called top games. You get paid the same whether you have the top game of the night or the bottom game. Just go out and do the best you can and not worry about the other stuff. Besides, it seems to me that your interest lies in officiating college basketball, so in the end, you will either be doing HS games to fill in your non-college nights or you will stop doing them all together. Eventually this type of nonsense about how or who gets assigned to what games will no longer have any significance for you.

Where did I mention top games or bottom games? Ever hear of holiday tournaments and post-season games? Maybe you're one of those guys who makes snide comments to officials who go to camp.

And I already work a college schedule, and I've been doing so for a few years now. I have tremendous relationships with my current HS assignors. And they both appreciate having college guys on their HS staffs. And the college guys I know who still work HS ball, do so in a professional manner.

But thanks, for assuming I'm just talking out the side of my neck with no basis for my statements. :rolleyes:

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the coaches, players and fans. And if you're an official, it should make a difference to you. It reflects poorly upon the association, the assignor and the association members when officials are assigned to games who can't handle them.

That's why you work, just to get paid?

Wow. Unbelievable.

Hmmm, I think what and when I get assigned would have significance to me. I think that's why I have a block-out calendar. In fact, I even have one assignor who allows us to put mileage limitations for each day of the week. And guess what, I utilize that option. Hope that doesn't offend you also.

BNR and BktBallRef, I think johnny d was talking about his association and his frustrations, building on what he quoted BNR as saying. I think he was using "you" in a rhetorical sense.

Admirable of you to look on the bright side, but this would contradict that line of thinking:

And since he has already worked 3 college games and 2 scrimmages, I know he shouldn't have any frustration with his local association, as they are no longer of any significance to him.

Never implied you were talking without basis, I believe you when you say they aren't doing the job the right way. My only point is that their behavior is not stopping you from reaching your goals, so it isn't worth getting upset about.

Exactly. It is unbelievable that you would be so worked up about something as insignificant as who is working the perceived big games rather than worrying about things you can control as an individual.

Rookie, I am curious to find out what happens throughout the next few weeks/ season with your elections, association, and if any changes happen. I think the most frustrating part for me is going to at least 2 camps every summer, studying the crap out of the rule book, case book, and official's manual, and then realize that the varsity officials are only required to attend camp once every three years, and realize that they don't know that the ball is dead after a made basket even though the clock is running and that simultaneous violations on a free throw goes to the arrow and such, yet they maintain their same varsity assignments, even though they probably haven't cracked a rule book in years. That is a really long sentence.

Our 4 main evaluators don't officiate anymore and I have a lot of respect for them, but I feel like they should be putting the varsity guys under the same scrutiny as any other official. Let the dead wood drift away and let the motivated, dedicated, respect for the game, growth officials fill in those spots. I think it is better for the game, better for the reputation of the association, and just helps improve the game all around. Then when these really motivated guys get to where they want to go, I think they would be more inclined to give back and help other nwere like minded officials to move up and improve. Just my 2 or 3 cents.

It's Not for Life ...
 

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, we have a rating system (80% peer evaluations), and a ranking system, that allows for everyone, varsity included, to move both up, and down.

As our former assignment commissioner used to say, "Being a varsity basketball official isn't the same as being the Pope, or a Supreme Court Justice".

"Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down." (Jimmy Durante)

Once again I feel so blessed that I do not have to deal with this kind of crap.

Peace

Billy brings up something I was thinking about (scary, I know). Is there a system in place where officials rate one another? We don't have one in NYC and I know I've heard the grumbling but from what I've seen on the public school side of things those who should move up seem to be moving up.

Things are different in the Catholic/Private schools. I know more than a few officials - and have heard of many others - who work NCAAM games but haven't been put on BV level in the NYC Catholic/Private schools. Many have given up those leagues as a result.

We did until this year. Certified officials (the highest classification out of 3 levels) were allowed to rate each official they worked with twice in a season. Well because of the way it was done by many trying to get an advantage, they took that ability away before this school year. Now all our ratings are based on coaches for varsity contests. There are other things considered for playoffs and an administrator with the IHSA makes all post season assignments. And they can consider other things outside of our overall Power Rating system.

Peace

I posted my woes on here last season and it lead to a pretty decent discussion on the matter. Incidentally, the largest chapter in this area has gone from one of the most disorganized cluster youknowwhats to one of the better organized ones. A lot of that had to do with the voting in of new leadership and the willingness of the membership to improve it.

The politics will eat you up if you let it. I've come to grips with that in basketball...I'm still getting there with football. :)

Work on what you can control. Contribute what you can and work to make changes. Grand sweeping changes are rare, gradual changes in direction are much more common and feasible. You have to have patience to play the game if that's what you want to do.

Rut is also dead on. This isn't a basketball thing. I have seen similar things in other organizations not having anything to do with officiating.

Actually what is has done is stagnate the development of young officials here on the Peninsula. We don't have any new officials hungry to get better. I got into officiating at 37, I'm 49 now. I'm old. I got pick up on an NCAA roster in 2008 at 44. Since then only 2 guys from the Peninsula have been hired to NCAA-Mens staffs and both of them were in the process of moving up north the summers they were hired. A 49 year-old official shouldn't be the newest NCAA official in area with this much basketball going on year around.

You may only care about yourself, who knows. I like seeing young guys (and ladies) get better, get "big games", and get hired in college conferences. The environment of HS officiating where I live has killed officials passions for the game.

Because when those are the only games being played at the time, you are either working them or sitting at home.

You were the first person to bring up "so called big games". Seems to be on your mind more than anybody else's.

Exactly. An officiating association isn't North Korea. Changes can be, and should be, made when things aren't right. It's not always about "getting better games" as some folks seem to be fixated on as the only reason people are ever unhappy.

Your reaction is the same I had...

this is my first year in the state and pool and I thought I was hearing things but I swear to you its true...rookies on the varsity floor in their first game.

What I want to know is why a player was wearing a white undershirt under a blue jersey in the game.

I don't really care about big games, but I wish I didn't have to drive two hours there, one hour during JV, 2 hour game with shower, and 2 hours home. It would be nice to get a somewhat big game here and there. Shouldn't they spread the wealth?

Hopefully after rubbing elbows with assignors more and "proving" yourself, then you could get more games closer to home.

Welcome, again!
 

And BNR's new board (my only board) is better with the addition of him and others from his area.

PS - The bill is in the mail. ;)

I think your original post starts with the cream doesn't rise to the top around here. One implication of that statement is that qualified officials are being excluded from perceived big games. You followed up with talking about holiday tournament games and playoff games. Not sure about what goes on in PA, but where I come from those games are also perceived to be big games.

This is my exact quote:

Not my fault what you perceived. You brought up "big games" all by yourself. Holidays and post-season means there are only a certain number of games being played at that particular time. You travel 250 miles to work games, but you don't care to work post-season or in-season/holiday tournaments? :rolleyes::confused:

You went off on a tangent. You brought up people's schedules, not me. You totally ignored the bolded part of my original statement. You brought up all the different levels of college basketball you work and say you don't do it for the money. So what exactly do you do it for, if not for "big games" and not for "money"?

BTW, I live in VA, not PA. And if I chose to work for the association now doing public school games in my local vicinity, I would be doing all the "big games" my calendar would allow, and be home less than 30 minutes from the final horn. But I choose to drive 50-80 miles to get whatever I get. So your pyschological evaluation came up short in this case.

I owe you a low carb pizza.

Please use your phone and video this next time. Pleaseeeeee....

And what did he accomplish by doing that?

Peace

Coffin Nails....
 

I don't think he did himself a lot of good.... the room was deathly quiet and this group wouldn't quit commenting if the Pope was speaking....:rolleyes:

This happened in a similar situation in a meeting I attended probably 8 or 9 years ago. The assignor was handing out games by paper contract and a guy got up questioning assignments given and why he or others were not assigned games. I have not seen that guy since.

Peace

My Two Cents ...
 

The best players, on the best teams, in the best games that night, deserve the best officials that are available that night.

Every once in a while it's nice to see a young official on his way up get a big game with a really strong veteran partner, but that shouldn't happen every night. It's also nice to see an "average" veteran official get a big game, probably with a strong partner, every once in a while but it, also, shouldn't happen every night.

I'm considered a dependable, veteran, "journeyman", varsity official, definitely not one of the top officials in my local board, and I get a few big games each season, usually with a really strong partner, and I'm happy with that. Somebody's got to work games with teams with losing records. I'm happy to do those games a few times a week. It's better than staying home and watching Two And A Half Men on the boob tube. We can't just cancel those pedestrian games.

From my pregame: "This game is the most important game being played anywhere tonight for these kids, fans, and coaches. Let’s make sure we officiate the game keeping that in mind, through effort, and attitude".

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[QUOTE=Sharpshooternes;909968]Rookie, I am curious to find out what happens throughout the next few weeks/ season with your elections, association, and if any changes happen.

Those who were complaining the loudest were NOT elected to the Board...I am sure this will add fuel to the fire. I will report back on further developments:)

Wrong again. Just because that's the way it might be in Illinois doesn't mean that's the way it is everywhere. In many areas, schools have no choice who they have assigning or working their games. The state association makes that decision.

Whether you have any input in those situations or not, it reflects poorly on you if you're a member of that association. Like it or not.


If that's true, they why don't you work 6th grade games every night instead of working "NAIA, D2 or D3 game 250 miles" away from your house. I smell BS.

No, what was unbelievable was your smart@ss remark to an official you don't even know about what you perceive as his desires. Very condescending to say the least.

And yet not nearly as smart@ssed or condescending as your remarks above or many of your other posts. It is rather amusing that you so frequently choose to utilize the same devices you find upsetting in other's posts.

Low carb pizza? OK! Lite beer, also? OK. You working guys can afford it.

Because many here may not know...in Texas there are chapters that cover a specific geographic area and each chapter has someone assign games for schools in their area to members of the chapter.

In my chapter there was a similar mini-revolt over assignments. The assignor commented that he could only go by the feedback he received and personal observations because there was no established evaluation program. The chapter spent the rest of that season putting together an evaluation committee of "top officials", establishing criteria and developing grade categories identifying the type of game you would be eligible to work given your grade (from large school varsity down to middle school for both boys and girls). The next year every official in the chapter was observed and evaluated three times (and twice in each year afterwards).

The next season, even with the grades and criteria, the same officials were getting all the "big games" and large programs even though the committee had identified officials who should be getting better games (and many of them were still being given medium sized school girls varsity). At the end of that year, the Executive Committe fired the assignor and hired a new one. Funny, after that happened the "rising stars" and the officials who were making solid improvement in the craft started getting "better schedules".

So you see, sometimes it really is the good ole boy network that officials are fighting.

For some, yes. I would guess that there were just as many who expected better schedules that didn't get them even after the change.

Ultimately, there are only so many big games and there are usually more officials that think they should get them than there are big games. The specific bodies that get them may have changed but someone always thinks they're getting unfairly left out....it is just a different somebody now even if the overall balance is "better" when viewed objectively.

Cameron Rust, I agree with you. Before I had to stop because of my health issue I could not care less what games I was assigned...to a degree. I wanted a predominate varsity schedule and that is what I received. I was fortunate enough to work a couple of rounds of play-off games the last few years and I was happy. I started officiating so late in life I accepted long ago I would never work higher than that.

But I did, and hope to again, officate becuase I enjoyed it. The money just went to the wife and daughter for shopping...next time it goes into the vacation fund.

I guess if I was younger and wanted to work college it would have mattered more. Oddly enough, my last couple of years a man spoke at a camp I attended. For years he worked a mostly varsity high school schedule and went to a "try-out camp" for a local college assignor. He was told he would never be more than a good high school official...he is currently in his 14th season as an NBA official. Local and college assignors are not always correct in their assessments.

Whatever. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of your comments. You pop off about someone else worrying about not getting the big games, yet by your own comments your more concerned with traveling 250 miles from home to work a college game that staying near home and working any available game. Sorry if that offends you.

I Did It My Way ...
 

It's all about trade-offs. About twenty-five years ago, I made the decision to not pursue a college schedule (mostly due to travel distances, traffic congestion, winter weather, and young children at home), and instead, decided to fill in the free nights in my high school schedule with Catholic middle school games (closer than my almost all of my high school games).

I have no way to know how I would have done working college games, but from where I'm sitting, I have no regrets. Easy travel, good middle school basketball, good money, no politics, and I've made life-long friends in my Catholic middle school association.