Deflected Throw-In Goes In

Freddy

Older threads went back and forth on this, and I'd like to renew the question so as to settle on a firm, rules-based judgment on this situation:

Throw-in thrown toward throw-in team's basket deflects off a defender standing outside the three-point arc and goes through the basket. Result is two points due to the fact that the "throw" did not originate "from the field" as requisite in 5-2-1. True or False?

Previous threads from a while ago wavered back and forth until seemingly settling on the "two points" result.

Casebook does not seem to settle the question since all sitches there deal with passes and throws from a player inbounds.

Any rules-based insights you can share with me?

[deleted]

Freddy wrote
Any rules-based insights you can share with me?

I have three points. Referencing 5.2.1 Situation D with a little bit of 5.2.1 Situation C thrown in.

HawkeyeCubP

NCAA-W AR 104 and 106.A lead me toward saying it...I still don't know. Someone smarter than me provide some amazing insight here.

A.R. 104. A1’s throw (pass) from behind the three-point line is deflected while in flight by:
1. B1; or
2. A2, both of whom are located inside the three-point line.
RULING 1: When a ball thrown (passed) in the direction of the basket from behind the three-point line with the possibility of entering the basket from above is deflected by a defender, a three-point goal shall be counted. However, if there is no possibility of the ball entering the basket from above and the “deflection caused the goal to be successful, a two-point goal shall be counted.
2: When a thrown (passed) ball is deflected by a teammate and the goal is successful, two points shall be awarded.
When a passed ball hits the ring and does not enter the basket, there is no reset of the shot clock.

A.R. 106. A ball passed from behind the three-point line:
1. Enters the basket from above and passes through;
2. Is deflected and enters the basket from above and passes through; or
3. Strikes the side of the ring or the flange.
RULING 1: A three-point goal shall be counted.
2: When there is no possibility of the ball entering the basket from above and the deflection causes the goal to be successful, it shall be a two-point goal. However, when a ball is passed in the direction of the basket with the possibility of entering the basket from above and the deflection does not influence its success, a three-point goal shall be counted.
3: The ball shall remain live. In each case, when a passed ball hits the ring and does not enter the basket, there is no reset of the shot clock.

just another ref

No way can this be three points.

[deleted]

just another ref wrote
No way can this be three points.

Care to share your extrapolation of the rules/case plays?

Lcubed48

AremRed wrote
I have three points. Referencing 5.2.1 Situation D with a little bit of 5.2.1 Situation C thrown in.

I read 5-2-1 and 5.2.1 Sit C & D. This particular situation isn't specifically addressed as far as I see. So, I come down on the side of a 2 point basket because of the "thrown ball from the field" verbiage in the rule.

bob jenkins

HawkeyeCubP wrote
NCAA-W AR 104 and 106.A lead me toward saying it...I still don't know. Someone smarter than me provide some amazing insight here.

Since you can't score a goal on a throw-in pass, then I would have a deflection be worth only two points, not three, based on the NCAA rules.

I would rule the same way in FED.

And to the OP -- if it wasn't resolved then, and there haven't been any (relevant) changes, what makes you think it would be resolved now?

rockyroad

The throw-in ended when the ball was legally touched by the defender. There was never a throw (shot attempt) made by an offensive player. So the rules cited do not really apply. This would be two points.

Lcubed48

bob jenkins wrote
Since you can't score a goal on a throw-in pass, then I would have a deflection be worth only two points, not three, based on the NCAA rules.

I would rule the same way in FED.

And to the OP -- if it wasn't resolved then, and there haven't been any (relevant) changes, what makes you think it would be resolved now?

All is right with my world when I agree with Bob. 🙂🙂

maven

rockyroad wrote
The throw-in ended when the ball was legally touched by the defender. There was never a throw (shot attempt) made by an offensive player. So the rules cited do not really apply. This would be two points.

Yep. Live ball through the goal, does not meet the criteria for 3 points.

jdd1172

With that same scenario, what if time expires while the ball is in flight..do you count the basket or wave off the basket?

tjones1

Score two points in the OP.

jdd1172 wrote
With that same scenario, what if time expires while the ball is in flight..do you count the basket or wave off the basket?

jdd - no basket.

bob jenkins

jdd1172 wrote
With that same scenario, what if time expires while the ball is in flight..do you count the basket or wave off the basket?

The period doesn't end until a TRY IN FLIGHT ends. This wasn't, so it does. Do not count the basket.

(Same as if the ball was thrown toward the opponent's basket.)

HawkeyeCubP

I agree with the 2-points rulings here, but I'd want to be careful not to mistakenly state that it's 2 because "you can score a 3-pt. basket from a throw-in," since the throw-in technically ended on the defensive deflection - even though that's essentially how we're logically getting there.

Freddy

bob jenkins wrote
And to the OP -- if it wasn't resolved then, and there haven't been any (relevant) changes, what makes you think it would be resolved now?

😕

In the previous threads from a while ago many posters confused this situation with those in the casebook which do not deal with a throw in. And I see at least one responder to this thread made the same error. I asked the question again for the sake of clarity and confirmation and I thank you for your responses. 🙂

But because I may have discomforted some with my request I will be sure to seek permission before asking anything like this again. 😀

rockyroad

HawkeyeCubP wrote
I agree with the 2-points rulings here, but I'd want to be careful not to mistakenly state that it's 2 because "you can score a 3-pt. basket from a throw-in," since the throw-in technically ended on the defensive deflection - even though that's essentially how we're logically getting there.

OK then...how about we say that you can't score a 3 at your opponents basket?

HawkeyeCubP

rockyroad wrote
OK then...how about we say that you can't score a 3 at your opponents basket?

Sure. But the OP was toward and into A's basket.

rockyroad

HawkeyeCubP wrote
Sure. But the OP was toward and into A's basket.

It was a throw-in. Ended when touched by defender. Can't score 3 in opponents basket.

bob jenkins

HawkeyeCubP wrote
I agree with the 2-points rulings here, but I'd want to be careful not to mistakenly state that it's 2 because "you can score a 3-pt. basket from a throw-in," since the throw-in technically ended on the defensive deflection - even though that's essentially how we're logically getting there.

"If the original release had no chance at being worth three points, then the deflection can't be worth three points."

(edit: NCAA interp only. FED might be different.)

HawkeyeCubP

rockyroad wrote
It was a throw-in. Ended when touched by defender. Can't score 3 in opponents basket.

I think I see where you're going. But it's still a pass by A that goes into A's basket. It's not B scoring at A's basket.