NCAA Shot Clock

bob jenkins

NCHSAA wrote
Play: White #15 feels at 5' 10" he can dunk among trees. He goes up in the lane and is rejected by the front of the rim. The ball does NOT leave his hands on the dunk attempt. The shot clock is at 2 seconds. He subsequently returns to the court still in player-control.

Decision: Shot clock reset? Travel?

What say you?

Travel. The player always had control, even though it started as a try.

The play is no different than "Player rises for jump shot, sees the ball will be block, keeps holding the ball and lands."

JetMetFan

bob jenkins wrote
Travel. The player always had control, even though it started as a try.

The play is no different than "Player rises for jump shot, sees the ball will be block, keeps holding the ball and lands."

But it’s still a try. If the shot had been blocked by a person as opposed to the rim that doesn’t change what it was when A1 rose off the floor. As long as we determine it was a try to begin with 5-1-10 says the ball doesn’t have to leave A1’s hands.

NCHSAA wrote
5-1-10: Deals with a foul. Under the play in question a foul did not prevent the release...but the rim did (embarrassing for the player)

I think the foul described in the rule is just for the purpose of providing an example. It’s also the most likely way A1 would not be able to release the try.

NCHSAA wrote
5-1-6: States a dunk is a try, which we know. In the play, a dunk was attempted. However, unlike a NORMAL shot or dunk, player control was not lost. Does the lack of losing player-control void the attempt?

If it was B1 who caused the ball to remain in A1’s hands would A1 have lost PC? I'm saying "no" because in that scenario it would be a held ball once A1 returned to the floor and part of the definition/description of a held ball involving an airborne player says that player “returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.” (NCAAW 6-4-2b) It's still a try, just one that isn't successful.

bob jenkins

JetMetFan wrote
But it’s still a try. If the shot had been blocked by a person as opposed to the rim that doesn’t change what it was when A1 rose off the floor. As long as we determine it was a try to begin with 5-1-10 says the ball doesn’t have to leave A1’s hands.

I think the foul described in the rule is just for the purpose of providing an example. It’s also the most likely way A1 would not be able to release the try.

If it was B1 who caused the ball to remain in A1’s hands would A1 have lost PC? I'm saying "no" because in that scenario it would be a held ball once A1 returned to the floor and part of the definition/description of a held ball involving an airborne player says that player “returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.” (NCAAW 6-4-2b) It's still a try, just one that isn't successful.

I think there's a specific case play where A1 jumps, the ball is touched by B1, the touch doesn't prevent the release and A1 lands. It's travelling.

In practice, 99% of the time it will be a held ball.

reffish

NCAAW:

A dunk is a try for goal according to Rule 5-1.6
The shot clock is stopped and reset when a try for goal strikes the ring according to Rule 2-11.6d
So, reset the shot clock
It cannot be a travel because player control is lost when there is try for goal, therefore the player can recover the shot attempt and resume normal activities.

BktBallRef

NCAA 9-12-2
A shot-clock try for field goal is defined as the ball having left the shooter’s hand(s) before the sounding of the shot-clock horn and then striking the ring or flange, or entering the basket.

Note that a shot-clock try for goal is different than try for goal.

bob jenkins

reffish wrote
It cannot be a travel because player control is lost when there is try for goal,

Reference.

NCAAW 4-9 says team control continues until the ball is in flight during a try...

I don't see any exceptions in Travelling related to a try.

jeschmit

bob jenkins wrote
Reference.

NCAAW 4-9 says team control continues until the ball is in flight during a try...

I don't see any exceptions in Travelling related to a try.

I see what you did there... 🙄

bob jenkins

jeschmit wrote
I see what you did there... :rolleyes:

First typo ever.

HawkeyeCubP

reffish wrote
NCAAW:
A dunk is a try for goal according to Rule 5-1.6
The shot clock is stopped and reset when a try for goal strikes the ring according to Rule 2-11.6d
So, reset the shot clock

9-12-2 supersedes and supplements (if that's possible to do both) 2-11.6.d. A shot clock try, as mentioned above already, must leave the shooter's hand. This is a NCAA-M test question, and the answer is wanting people to understand 9-12-2 and 9-12-4.

I don't personally like the rule/ruling on this, because it defies common sense (at least in my thinking), but iiwis.

Camron Rust

bob jenkins wrote
First typo ever.

What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling. But you probably have to use FIBA rules to call travelling.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/british-and-american-spelling

BillyMac

Camron Rust wrote
What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling.

It's the correct metric spelling.

jeschmit

Camron Rust wrote
What typo? It actually is a valid alternate spelling of traveling. But you probably have to use FIBA rules to call travelling.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/british-and-american-spelling

I took his "typo" as paying homage to a certain poster who took this board by storm this past summer... Seeing as how he capitalized it as well.

Whether he did it on purpose or not, it made me laugh.

reffish

Okay, upon further review, I change my ruling from reset shot clock per rulings based on Rule 4-9.3 and Rule 9-12.2 to traveling as the ball did not leave the player's hand for a try or pass before the pivot foot returns to the floor.

JetMetFan

Since I believe in getting the answer from the source – and I also don’t mind if I’m wrong 😮 – here’s the interpretation NCAAM S-RE Art Hyland (I figured it didn’t make sense to go to my S-RE since Brittany Griner is now in the WNBA):

1. The shot clock would not be reset because the ball never left the shooter’s hand which is a requirement under Rule 9-12.2.

2. If the shooter maintained control of the ball when the attempt is blocked by the rim, it would be traveling if he then returned to the floor with the ball. See Rule 9-6.5. If he lost control, it would be a legal play.

He did say he liked my thinking so at least I get a gold star for that 🙂