Shirt untucked

Sharpshooternes

So around these parts, it seems to be that officials just ask the players to tuck in their shorts before we resume play. The NFHS book is pretty clear that any player with an untucked shirt must leave the game and return once the situation is remedied and at the next legal time to substitute.
What do you all do in your little corners and what are your thoughts on our practice?

Lcubed48

Yes, it's a rule. However, I can only remember sending off one player in a JV contest years ago. It isn't something that gets a lot of focus from me or those here in the commonwealth.

grunewar

I won't let a player in the game, at the table, if his shirt is untucked.

If there is a dead ball (foul shot, inbounding) and I have the opportunity to say something to a player, I'll tell them to tuck it in.

I have, on occasion come across that "one player" who likes to pull his shirt out intentionally. He, I have reminded, and then asked him to leave the game when he does it repetitively, and said something to his coach.

bob jenkins

Sharpshooternes wrote
The NFHS book is pretty clear that any player with an untucked shirt must leave the game and return once the

That's not how I remember it -- do you have a reference (I don't have my case book here). I remember it that if they refuse, or if they intentionally pull it out, then send them off.

And, yes, it's an "address it first before you send them off" type of rule.

JetMetFan

*NFHS 3.3.5 SITUATION A: B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-and-one, the official observes: (a) A1 pull the jersey out of his/her pants; or (b) A1’s pants being worn below the hips. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed to put the jersey in the pants or pull up the pants, and must leave the game immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared for the free throw and Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free throw is successful. COMMENT: A charged time-out by Team A does not alter the requirement for A1 to leave the game.

JRutledge

In the real world we allow them every opportunity to put their shirt back in their pants/shorts in order to play. I am not taking a kid out of the game just because it is untucked. For one many jerseys do not fit properly or are short. If we took players out of the game every time, we would be doing this 20 times a game.

Peace

bob jenkins

JetMetFan wrote
*NFHS 3.3.5 SITUATION A: B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-and-one, the official observes: (a) A1 pull the jersey out of his/her pants; or (b) A1’s pants being worn below the hips. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed to put the jersey in the pants or pull up the pants, and must leave the game immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared for the free throw and Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free throw is successful. COMMENT: A charged time-out by Team A does not alter the requirement for A1 to leave the game.

right. (a) says "pull," meaning an intentional act. The OP asks about "with an untucked shirt" which could just be from normal play or from an opponent's action.

When in doubt, assume the latter.

APG

JRutledge wrote
In the real world we allow them every opportunity to put their shirt back in their pants/shorts in order to play. I am not taking a kid out of the game just because it is untucked. For one many jerseys do not fit properly or are short. If we took players out of the game every time, we would be doing this 20 times a game.

Peace

Exactly my thoughts on this.

Adam

Two seasons ago, I reminded the same player two or three times in the first half. We decided at half time to send him out if it happened again. First dead ball of the third quarter, he's got it untucked (all the way) again. I ask the coach for a sub, and let him know why.

His shirt miraculously fit better the rest of the game, and stayed tucked.
I had him two days later, and this time there were no half-time miracles needed. It stayed tucked the entire game, and he and I had a pretty good raport that game.

just another ref

Adam wrote
Two seasons ago, I reminded the same player two or three times in the first half. We decided at half time to send him out if it happened again. First dead ball of the third quarter, he's got it untucked (all the way) again. I ask the coach for a sub, and let him know why.

His shirt miraculously fit better the rest of the game, and stayed tucked.
I had him two days later, and this time there were no half-time miracles needed. It stayed tucked the entire game, and he and I had a pretty good raport that game.

+1 On multiple violations and obvious disregard for being told, I'm all for sending one out. I've seen it/done it 3 or 4 times.

JetMetFan

Adam wrote
Two seasons ago, I reminded the same player two or three times in the first half. We decided at half time to send him out if it happened again. First dead ball of the third quarter, he's got it untucked (all the way) again. I ask the coach for a sub, and let him know why.

His shirt miraculously fit better the rest of the game, and stayed tucked.
I had him two days later, and this time there were no half-time miracles needed. It stayed tucked the entire game, and he and I had a pretty good raport that game.

The only time I ever did it was 15 years ago in Georgia. Before I did it, I told the player's coach, “Coach, do me a favor. Tell #xx to keep his shirt in. I’ve already mentioned it to him a couple of times.” When I did it, the coach gave his kid one of those “if looks could kill” stares. When the kid came back into the game he apologized to me.

just another ref

One of the few things I ever heard Bill Walton say that I liked:

"They could keep them in if they wanted to. You never see John Stockton with his untucked."

BillyMac

grunewar wrote
I won't let a player in the game, at the table, if his shirt is untucked. If there is a dead ball (foul shot, inbounding) and I have the opportunity to say something to a player, I'll tell them to tuck it in. I have, on occasion come across that "one player" who likes to pull his shirt out intentionally. He, I have reminded, and then asked him to leave the game when he does it repetitively, and said something to his coach.

Same way we handle it here in my little corner of Connecticut.

Sharpshooternes

3-3-5: A player not wearing the pants/skirt properly and above the hips and/or a player not tucking in a team jersey (front and back) designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt, shall be directed to leave the game as in 3-3-4; a charged TO shall not alter this requirement.

I can see how the wording of this can mean if you ask someone to tuck in their shirt and they don't, then you direct them to leave the game. I can also read it the other way.

I am really ok with either one and with the suggestions already mentioned that if one or two reminders don't fix the problem then send them out. I do bet however that if you sent out the first person who did it in the game you wouldn't have any issues for the rest of that game and if all of the officials did it, you wouldn't have any issues ever. Except when the opposing team learns that if they untuck the star players shirt they will have to sit 🙄 If it was enforced early and often, the issue would disappear altogether. Go John Stockton!!!

JetMetFan

Sharpshooternes wrote
Except when the opposing team learns that if they untuck the star players shirt they will have to sit

We actually discussed that scenario in a rules interpretation years ago. The decision was to T the kid who pulled out the opponent's jersey 😉

In terms of the Stockton comments, I've used a variation of that when kids think I'm too picky. I'll tell them, "Hey, in the (W)NBA players get fined for having their jersey hanging out. If they can do it, you can do it."

RookieDude

..."if I have to have my shirt tucked in...so do you!"

Adam

Sharpshooternes wrote
3-3-5: A player not wearing the pants/skirt properly and above the hips and/or a player not tucking in a team jersey (front and back) designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt, shall be directed to leave the game as in 3-3-4; a charged TO shall not alter this requirement.

I can see how the wording of this can mean if you ask someone to tuck in their shirt and they don't, then you direct them to leave the game. I can also read it the other way.

I am really ok with either one and with the suggestions already mentioned that if one or two reminders don't fix the problem then send them out. I do bet however that if you sent out the first person who did it in the game you wouldn't have any issues for the rest of that game and if all of the officials did it, you wouldn't have any issues ever. Except when the opposing team learns that if they untuck the star players shirt they will have to sit 🙄 If it was enforced early and often, the issue would disappear altogether. Go John Stockton!!!

Sure, you'd have no problems with it the rest of the game. You'd also start seeing your games get progressively worse (the assignments) as you became known as "that guy." You'll have rule backing, but you really don't want to be a lone ranger on this issue.

Camron Rust

Adam wrote
Sure, you'd have no problems with it the rest of the game. You'd also start seeing your games get progressively worse (the assignments) as you became known as "that guy." You'll have rule backing, but you really don't want to be a lone ranger on this issue.

Not necessarily. There are some assignors who expect their officials to take care of it that way. Can't imagine their schedules getting worse for doing what the assignor asks.

Sharpshooternes

Adam wrote
Sure, you'd have no problems with it the rest of the game. You'd also start seeing your games get progressively worse (the assignments) as you became known as "that guy." You'll have rule backing, but you really don't want to be a lone ranger on this issue.

Agree with the lone ranger thing.

Adam

Camron Rust wrote
Not necessarily. There are some assignors who expect their officials to take care of it that way. Can't imagine their schedules getting worse for doing what the assignor asks.

Fair enough. I've never heard of such an assigner, but I'm sure they're out there. I know exactly how that phone call would go with any of the assigners I've ever worked for, though.