Offensive Foul after Shooting Foul?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is not ever a double foul. In order to be a double foul, the opponents have to commit fouls against each other. This is not true in your scenario. This would always be a false double foul or simultaneous foul depending upon the timing of the two fouls.

Of course.
Duh.
Doi.
That's what I get when I try to think through these things while passing the time watching daughter's volleyball game.

[Sharpshooternes]

So in the blarge situation we are discussiong, when do you consider it a double foul and when do you consider it a false double foul? Whether the ball is released on the try or not? I am looking at 4.19.8c and 4.19.9a.

[Adam]

Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.

So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?

4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

I see no reason why any double foul could not be called by two different officials. The unique thing about 4.19.8c is conflicting block/charge calls on the same play, which by definition is impossible. Others say both fouls must be reported when the officials give the conflicting preliminary signal, but I see nothing in the case play which demands this. What do you think?



Hey, he asked.

[Adam]

I'm not sure what the situations are, to be honest. But....

There would need to be more of a difference. Any time you have a double foul, neither can be a PC due to definitions. It is possible to have a double foul called by one official (not likely, but possible) on a shooter.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

That's not correct. In 4.19.8C the fouls are by two players AGAINST EACH OTHER. That's a double foul. So the "charge" is NOT a PC foul, the try counts and you resume at the POI (B's ball on the endlien if the try is good, the arrow if the try is not good). This is really no different than A1 tries, B2 and A2 foul each other getting into position for the rebound.

In 4.19.9A , The fouls are not by players against each other. One B player fouls A1, and A1 in turn fouls a DIFFERENT B player. That makes it a false double foul. Here the "charge" is a PC foul and BOTH fouls are penalized.