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-   -   Zig Zag Help ??? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96148-zig-zag-help.html)

BillyMac Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:55pm
Zig Zag Help ???
 
Anybody know where I can purchase a pair of Reebok Zig Energy Refs regular leather (not patent leather) online? I'm willing to preorder if it's necessary. I bought a pair of the patent leather Zigs toward the end of last season, wore them in a few Catholic middle school games, and found them to be a little too flashy for my style, plus they clashed with my non patent leather black belt. I'd love to get a non patent leather pair, and use the patent leathers for a my backups.

AremRed Sun Sep 22, 2013 03:56pm
Right here buddy, I hope they have your size

bob jenkins Sun Sep 22, 2013 05:06pm
Adsz for at least a couple of places in the current RefMag -- Honigs was one, I think, and maybe Purchase Officals was the other (but both are from memory)

BillyMac Sun Sep 22, 2013 05:57pm
Matte Finish ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905716)
Right here buddy, I hope they have your size
Thank you very much. The matte finish will definitely match my matte finish black belt.

BillyMac Sun Sep 22, 2013 05:58pm
Thanks ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 905720)
Honigs was one, I think, and maybe Purchase Officials was the other.
No luck with Honigs. Purchase was a winner.

Bad Zebra Sun Sep 22, 2013 07:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905724)
No luck with Honigs. Purchase was a winner.
Just bought a pair from Purchase Officials last week. Good price...easy transaction. They're my go to.

Raymond Mon Sep 23, 2013 07:28am
Zig zags? Didn't know you were 4/20 friendly.

jeschmit Mon Sep 23, 2013 08:14am
I went on Reebok's website and made my own... it was $150, but I got them exactly how I wanted them in the style I wanted them in. I'm curious as to how heavy those are on the Purchase Officials website... The ones I made are extremely light, and I know what kind of arch support I am getting. For only $50 more I'm happy in making my own!

Welpe Mon Sep 23, 2013 08:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905705)
Anybody know where I can purchase a pair of Reebok Zig Energy Refs regular leather (not patent leather) online? I'm willing to preorder if it's necessary. I bought a pair of the patent leather Zigs toward the end of last season, wore them in a few Catholic middle school games, and found them to be a little too flashy for my style, plus they clashed with my non patent leather black belt. I'd love to get a non patent leather pair, and use the patent leathers for a my backups.
Sounds like good incentive to ditch the belt and get some new Sansabelts. :D

Bad Zebra Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeschmit (Post 905758)
I'm curious as to how heavy those are on the Purchase Officials website...
As a matter of fact, that's one of the main reasons I bought them. They are amazingly light in comparison to the old Reebok patent leathers that I was wearing. I think I have bedroom slippers that are heavier than these Zigs.

Multiple Sports Mon Sep 23, 2013 01:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 905759)
Sounds like good incentive to ditch the belt and get some new Sansabelts. :D
We should only be so fortunate........

Hey BM - They make two different types. You can get the patent leather for your patent belt and the non patent leather for your other belt.......

Im sure you have a lotta belts

BillyMac Mon Sep 23, 2013 05:00pm
Glaucoma ??? Yeah, Sure, I've Got Glaucoma, Yes, I'm Certain, It's Glaucoma ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 905750)
Zig zags? Didn't know you were 4/20 friendly.
This is Connecticut, and there isn't a "bluer" state. Only Colorado, and Washington are more 4/20 friendly.

BillyMac Mon Sep 23, 2013 05:03pm
Will I Need A Patent Leather Athletic Supporter ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 905759)
Sounds like good incentive to ditch the belt and get some new Sansabelts.
Sansabelts come in patent leather? That's just a little too "kinky" for me.

BillyMac Mon Sep 23, 2013 05:04pm
Is That A Whistle In Your Pocket, Or Are You Just Happy To See Me ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 905805)
I'm sure you have a lotta belts.
... and noose lanyards. Don't forget my noose lanyards.

constable Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905705)
Anybody know where I can purchase a pair of Reebok Zig Energy Refs regular leather (not patent leather) online? I'm willing to preorder if it's necessary. I bought a pair of the patent leather Zigs toward the end of last season, wore them in a few Catholic middle school games, and found them to be a little too flashy for my style, plus they clashed with my non patent leather black belt. I'd love to get a non patent leather pair, and use the patent leathers for a my backups.

belt? This is a joke, right?

Rich Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable (Post 905851)
belt? This is a joke, right?
Sadly enough, Billy like to brag that he wears a belt when he officiates basketball. Apparently in his corner of the world, this doesn't brand him as a guy that has no clue how to dress for a game.

AremRed Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905853)
Sadly enough, Billy like to brag that he wears a belt when he officiates basketball. Apparently in his corner of the world, this doesn't brand him as a guy that has no clue how to dress for a game.
I don't see what the fuss is about. My state association has a master document full of uniform requirements for every sport. Under basketball it says "belt, if worn, must be black".

Camron Rust Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905854)
I don't see what the fuss is about. My state association has a master document full of uniform requirements for every sport. Under basketball it says "belt, if worn, must be black".
Acceptable and advisable are not always the same.

AremRed Tue Sep 24, 2013 02:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 905856)
Acceptable and advisable are not always the same.
We get it. Billy likes his belts. No need to bring it up all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/IwK5sDa.gif

Rich Tue Sep 24, 2013 02:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905863)
We get it. Billy likes his belts. No need to bring it up all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/IwK5sDa.gif
Right, he doesn't need to bring it up.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 06:15am
When In Rome, Except For Belts ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905853)
Sadly enough, Billy like to brag that he wears a belt when he officiates basketball. Apparently in his corner of the world, this doesn't brand him as a guy that has no clue how to dress for a game.
It's not bragging. It's a running commentary on the credo, "When in Rome ...", that seems to permeate throughout the officiating world.

What mystifies me, in reference to belts, is how some seem to follow the credo, and accept the fact that belts can be considered acceptable in some, but certainly not all, places ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905854)
I don't see what the fuss is about. My state association has a master document full of uniform requirements for every sport. Under basketball it says "belt, if worn, must be black".
... while others strongly believe that this fashion choice makes someone somewhat less than a good official.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 905856)
Acceptable and advisable are not always the same.
As I've stated several times, here in my little corner of Connecticut, black belts may be worn, and one's rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned, does not depend on whether, or not, one wears a black belt. Locally, black belts are neither encouraged, not are they discouraged. I've worn a belt for thirty-two years. I'm comfortable in belt, I'm allowed, without penalty, to wear a belt, and the next time I buy pants, they will be belted ... until I'm told that the rules have changed and that we're no longer allowed to wear black belts, at which point I will purchase beltless pants. Same thing applies if I'm ever locally advised that my rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned, will suffer if I continue to wear a black belt, in which case, I'll run to the store and buy beltless pants.

On the other hand, here in my little corner of Connecticut, we consider it completely unacceptable for our members to have any amount of white on an otherwise black shoe. Wearing shoes with white showing could effect one's rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned. Rookie officials are cautioned not to purchase shoes with any white on them, or are advised to "paint over" the white. Yet, I would never criticize another area of the country, nor the officials in that area, where local rules allow some white to appear on the shoe.

I realize that everything in basketball officiating can't fall under, "When in Rome ...", but how an official dresses should fall under local, rather than international, or universal, guidelines.

Until you've walked a mile through my little corner of Connecticut in my 100% black shoes ...

Rich Tue Sep 24, 2013 09:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905866)
It's not bragging. It's a running commentary on the credo, "When in Rome ...", that seems to permeate throughout the officiating world.

What mystifies me, in reference to belts, is how some seem to follow the credo, and accept the fact that belts can be considered acceptable in some, but certainly not all, places ...



... while others strongly believe that this fashion choice makes someone somewhat less than a good official.



As I've stated several times, here in my little corner of Connecticut, black belts may be worn, and one's rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned, does not depend on whether, or not, one wears a black belt. Locally, black belts are neither encouraged, not are they discouraged. I've worn a belt for thirty-two years. I'm comfortable in belt, I'm allowed, without penalty, to wear a belt, and the next time I buy pants, they will be belted ... until I'm told that the rules have changed and that we're no longer allowed to wear black belts, at which point I will purchase beltless pants. Same thing applies if I'm ever locally advised that my rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned, will suffer if I continue to wear a black belt, in which case, I'll run to the store and buy beltless pants.

On the other hand, here in my little corner of Connecticut, we consider it completely unacceptable for our members to have any amount of white on an otherwise black shoe. Wearing shoes with white showing could effect one's rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned. Rookie officials are cautioned not to purchase shoes with any white on them, or are advised to "paint over" the white. Yet, I would never criticize another area of the country, nor the officials in that area, where local rules allow some white to appear on the shoe.

I realize that everything in basketball officiating can't fall under, "When in Rome ...", but how an official dresses should fall under local, rather than international, or universal, guidelines.

Until you've walked a mile through my little corner of Connecticut in my 100% black shoes ...
Do officials with belts work your state tournament?

rockyroad Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905881)
Do officials with belts work your state tournament?
Is that really a deciding factor in your state?

WhistlesAndStripes Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905883)
Is that really a deciding factor in your state?
I can certainly see where it would be. You have 2 officials with equal ratings, knowledge, evaluations, etc. There has to be a deciding factor. Whatcha gonna use? Appearance means things. Some places, wearing belts is very looked down upon. Look the part!!

AremRed Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905864)
Right, he doesn't need to bring it up.
Yeah, he did mention it in the OP. However it was to let us know why he needed some plain leather Zigs. Other guys came in with the jokes, which are old and stale.

Billy is a vet, as many on this board are, and as long as he can run, make calls, and deal with coaches, his minor choice on uniform shouldn't be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905881)
Do officials with belts work your state tournament?
Should that even be a factor? No.

Adam Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905888)
Yeah, he did mention it in the OP. However it was to let us know why he needed some plain leather Zigs. Other guys came in with the jokes, which are old and stale.

Billy is a vet, as many on this board are, and as long as he can run, make calls, and deal with coaches, his minor choice on uniform shouldn't be an issue.


Should that even be a factor? No.
Billy is a vet, sure, but his mentioning of it here was purely a joke. He's the one who keeps mentioning it, ad nauseum.

Now, as to whether it should be a factor in determining whether one goes to the state tournament. How many officials work the state tournament in a Byron collar?

It's going to go into the same category as facial hair, girth, and glasses. Nothing says we can't wear glasses, but you just won't see many (if any) officials at that level wearing them.

Should it be that way? I don't know. It doesn't really matter to me. One could argue how you are dressed when you arrive on site should not matter, either, but it will (in most locales).

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905883)
Is that really a deciding factor in your state?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 905888)
Should that even be a factor? No.
It is a factor here. Not so much by the person that assigns the state tournament, but if the assignors will not give you games in the first place, yes it will affect your opportunities in the playoffs here at least. And I would suspect that is the case in a lot of places. Just like being bigger will affect you in the same way.

rockyroad Tue Sep 24, 2013 03:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905896)
It is a factor here. Not so much by the person that assigns the state tournament, but if the assignors will not give you games in the first place, yes it will affect your opportunities in the playoffs here at least. And I would suspect that is the case in a lot of places. Just like being bigger will affect you in the same way.
So your assignor will NOT assign games to an official simply because that official wears a belt? No regard to how well that official can call the game, manage the coaches, etc., etc...just simply because he/she wears a belt???

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 03:43pm
The Beltway ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905881)
Do officials with belts work your state tournament?
Absolutely. Some of our best officials wear belts. I will admit that, of those top officials, those that are also college officials never wear a belt, and haven't worn belts for about twenty-five years. Of the others that work the state tournament, the older veterans, will wear belts, while up and coming youngsters, especially those with college ambitions, usually don't.

Also, here in Connecticut, state tournament officials are 100% selected by coaches. Coaches care about whether, or not, an official can make the tough calls; whether, or not, an official will work to get into proper position; whether, or not, an official will communicate with the coaches; and will have no interest in whether, or not, an official wears a belt, they probably don't even notice.

I fully understand why some of you care about belts, or no belts, it's part of the guidelines, and expectations, in your local, or state, high school associations. I am assuming that in your areas an official is expected, either in writing, or by word of mouth, to wear beltless pants if they want to move up, including moving all the way up to state tournament games. I get that, and have no problem with that along the lines of, "When in Rome ...".

What I don't get is why many of you can't fathom that, here in my local association, among our 325 members, belts are neither encouraged, not are they discouraged, and one's rating, and ranking, and number, and level of games assigned, does not depend on whether, or not, one wears a black belt.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 03:46pm
Please, No Polls ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 905887)
Some places, wearing belts is very looked down upon.
From what I can gather from the Forum, certainly not a very scientific poll, it's probably most, if not almost all, places, just not here in my local board.

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 03:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905928)
So your assignor will NOT assign games to an official simply because that official wears a belt? No regard to how well that official can call the game, manage the coaches, etc., etc...just simply because he/she wears a belt???
First of all I do not have one assignor in any sport. It does not work like that here.

As it relates to basketball, there is usually a different assignor for each conference and each gender.

If you cannot fullfill basic expectations, you will not work for most of them at all. And yes, this is one of those for many that I work for. And you will never prove you can manage the coaches if you do not look the part. And many coaches are going to point you out (for all kinds of reasons other then a belt) if you do not look like someone that does not scream "He/she does not know what they are doing."

This is why every officiating association I belong to, teaches guys to wear the proper uniform and spends time every year discussing what is acceptable. It is the case in every sport and yes wearing a belt will hold you back just the same as wearing shorts will as a football official for certain level games.

I do not make the rules, I just agree with them. ;)

Peace

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:04pm
Took The Bait ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 905892)
Billy is a vet, sure, but his mentioning of it here was purely a joke.
Not really a joke, just a tongue in cheek comment regarding the inability of many Forum members to realize that the "When in Rome ..." credo may not always be acceptable, but should be acceptable for a local area that neither encourages, nor discourages belt wearing, in both training, and in rating guidelines, especially when the IAABO mechanics manual doesn't even broach this subject (not sure about the NFHS mechanics manual).

"When in Rome ..." shouldn't be a universal guideline, set in stone, for all local areas, or states, to "make up" all their own rules. It probably wouldn't work if all officials in a particularly area decided to allow two extra steps in addition to the limits already set in the traveling rule. I'm sure that the basketball officiating world would go crazy criticizing that local change.

But a "When in Rome .." guideline on a belt, or no belt? Why can't some of you just let it go? I'm not saying that your local area, or state, should have the same belt, or beltless, guidelines that we use, I never have. I'm just saying that that's the way we do it here, and ponder why some of your can't accept that. I've never criticized those of you that belong to an association that allows some white on shoes, whereas we don't allow any white at all.

When in Rome ...

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:11pm
When In Chicagoland ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905931)
... and yes, this is one of those for many that I work for ... This is why every officiating association I belong to, teaches guys to wear the proper uniform and spends time every year discussing what is acceptable. It is the case in every sport and yes wearing a belt will hold you back ...
It appears that you have well known guidelines that officials must wear beltless pants. It also appears that your association teaches that to your new officials, and maybe even to your veterans, with same type of continuing education. That's great. I have no problem with that.

We teach otherwise. We rate otherwise. Wearing a belt will not hold anybody back here in my local area (I can't speak for the entire state). Why can't some Forum members wrap their arms around that?

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905934)
It appears that you have well known guidelines that officials must wear beltless pants. It also appears that your association teaches that to your new officials, and maybe even to your veterans, with same type of continuing education. That's great. I have no problem with that.

We teach otherwise. We rate otherwise. Wearing a belt will not hold anybody back here in my local area (I can't speak for the entire state). Why can't some Forum members wrap their arms around that?
We are independent contractors. You can do what you want. But just like going to a job interview, there are consequences for what you wear. I belong to several associations and have been on the Board of several of those organizations. All of them teach similar stuff when it comes to what pants to wear. And this is not like other sports where you have to buy several items. You basically have to buy 4 things (Shirt, pants, shoes, whistle) as a basketball official. How hard is it to buy something that not only will not cost you a lot of money in comparison?

You do not have to buy down indicators, mask, hat, long sleeve shirts, jacket, ReadyRef or flags on top of your basic uniform.

BTW, this is not a Chicagoland thing. Some of have expectations larger then the area we live. This is the case in all the surrounding states that Illinois borders and areas that others have when they come form other places. There was a guy that moved to this area from out west and no one had to tell him what not to do when it came to his uniform. He fit in just fine.

Peace

rockyroad Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905931)
First of all I do not have one assignor in any sport. It does not work like that here.

As it relates to basketball, there is usually a different assignor for each conference and each gender.

If you cannot fullfill basic expectations, you will not work for most of them at all. And yes, this is one of those for many that I work for. And you will never prove you can manage the coaches if you do not look the part. And many coaches are going to point you out (for all kinds of reasons other then a belt) if you do not look like someone that does not scream "He/she does not know what they are doing."

This is why every officiating association I belong to, teaches guys to wear the proper uniform and spends time every year discussing what is acceptable. It is the case in every sport and yes wearing a belt will hold you back just the same as wearing shorts will as a football official for certain level games.

I do not make the rules, I just agree with them. ;)

Peace
And yet the belt is included under the officials uniform section.

Oh well...I don't wear one. I think we all look better without the belt. But I honestly can't think of a time when I have based a decision on someone's officiating ability on whether or not they were wearing a belt. And that includes camps where I have been a clinician, evaluating officials at State tournaments, etc.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:33pm
Exactly ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905937)
All of them teach similar stuff when it comes to what pants to wear.
And that's my point. Follow the state, or local, guidelines that are taught, and you can't go wrong. If I were to move to the Chicago area, I would hope that it would be made very clear to me that I should wear beltless slacks, especially if the number, and level of games, assigned, as well as my eligibility to work post season conference, and state tournament games, would be impacted by my uniform choices.

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905939)
And yet the belt is included under the officials uniform section.
Are patches included? Well we have to wear them. If you wear an old patch or a patch inappropriately, you will be seen in a negative light too. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905939)
Oh well...I don't wear one. I think we all look better without the belt. But I honestly can't think of a time when I have based a decision on someone's officiating ability on whether or not they were wearing a belt. And that includes camps where I have been a clinician, evaluating officials at State tournaments, etc.
Well I am a clinician, I assign no games, but the people that I work with do not wear belts. The times I have seen a varsity official wear a belt is so rare it would stick out if someone does. And just like wearing knickers now stands out and wearing an adjustable hat all brings more scrutinty then it should. I also think it is a cop out to act like the only thing we are judge by is abilty. That is never the case and I doubt that is all officials are evaluated by in your area or any area for that matter.

Peace

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905940)
Ands that's my point. Follow the state, or local, guidelines that are taught, and you can't go wrong. If I were to move to the Chicago area, I would hope that it would be made very clear to me that I should wear beltless slacks, especially if the number, and level of games, assigned, as well as my eligibility to work post season conference, and state tournament games, would be impacted by my uniform choices.
My officiating experience is not limited to or only subjected to Chicago area. I started my career in Central Illinois and until this year I would have worked more than one game in Central Illinois even while living in this area since 1999. If I wore a belt in other parts of the state, someone would have pointed it out in that part of the state too. You are so stuck on things I say having to do with one part of the state when clearly that is not the case. I work college too and people do not wear belts anywhere in college. You would get laughed out of any camp if you did just that. And officials are form Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan and Ohio in my experiences and no one would dare put on a belt.

Peace

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:42pm
Truth Or Consequences ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905937)
All of them teach similar stuff when it comes to what pants to wear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905931)
This is why every officiating association I belong to, teaches guys to wear the proper uniform and spends time every year discussing what is acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905942)
The people that I work with do not wear belts.
Of course they don't. They'd be stupid to wear one. If an official doesn't do what he is taught to do, then he should expect some consequences.

There are absolutely no consequences if I wear a belt in my little corner of Connecticut, however, I do not expect that that would be true all over the country, or for that matter, all over the State of Connecticut.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:46pm
College Education ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905943)
I work college too and people do not wear belts anywhere in college.
None of my comments are in any way related to college. I don't work college games. My local association doesn't train for, or assign, college games. Only a very small percentage of officials in my local high school board work college games, although that percentage is slowly increasing, especially for womens college games.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 04:48pm
Education Is The Key To Success ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905943)
And officials are form Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan and Ohio in my experiences and no one would dare put on a belt.
Because they were probably taught that, as well as a lot of other stuff about their uniforms (no lanyard, noose lanyard, regular Smitty, extra long Smitty, all black shoes, some white allowed on shoes, Fox 40 whistle, other brand non-pea whistle, different size Fox 40's, jacket styles, patches of various types, anniversary pins allowed on jackets, location of American flags on shirts, or jackets, etc.). How about hair, or facial hair, or wedding bands, etc.? Sure it would great if we all looked the same, but local traditions will prevail until there is some type of national high school association, and I doubt that that will exist before I'm on the wrong side of the grass.

just another ref Tue Sep 24, 2013 05:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905932)
Why can't some of you just let it go?

The main reason most can't let it go is because you keep bringing it up.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 05:58pm
I Want To Be Ignored ..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 905952)
The main reason most can't let it go is because you keep bringing it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905705)
They clashed with my non patent leather black belt.
I agree that I did bring it up, as a self deprecating, tongue in cheek, comment. I was actually hoping that it would be, in my opinion, rightfully ignored. Unfortunately, it never is. Someone's always ready to bite. And I don't mind defending myself, and my local board. I just can't figure out why me "bringing it up" as a facetious comment would get so many Forum veterans in a "tizzy"? I will, hopefully, never bring up this subject as a serious topic, but why can't many on the Forum just ignore it? Which is exactly my point. Uniform guidelines can be a "When in Rome ..." local guideline, and as long as Forum members get flustered, I will keep "bringing it up" as a self deprecating, facetious, comment, until the comment is, I believe, rightfully ignored, at which point, my job has been accomplished, and I will, hopefully, no longer bring it up facetiously, or in any other way.

This, thanks to a great lead in post by JRutledge, says it all in a nutshell:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905940)
And that's my point. Follow the state, or local, guidelines that are taught, and you can't go wrong. If I were to move to the Chicago area, I would hope that it would be made very clear to me that I should wear beltless slacks, especially if the number, and level of games, assigned, as well as my eligibility to work post season conference, and state tournament games, would be impacted by my uniform choices.
Uniform guidelines? When in Rome ... Local guidelines. How can anyone have a problem with that? That's the part that I can't fathom.

Raymond Tue Sep 24, 2013 06:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 905939)
And yet the belt is included under the officials uniform section.

Oh well...I don't wear one. I think we all look better without the belt. But I honestly can't think of a time when I have based a decision on someone's officiating ability on whether or not they were wearing a belt. And that includes camps where I have been a clinician, evaluating officials at State tournaments, etc.
Sometimes people not looking the "part" won't get a serious look in the first place.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:47pm
Serious Look ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 905958)
Sometimes people not looking the "part" won't get a serious look in the first place.
Show up in my local area with the "whole package" but with even a small amount of white on your shoes and you'll still get a "serious look", but you will also be told to get rid of the white. Way back, when I was wearing Spot Built shoes, and they were shoes, not black sneakers, I was told to black out the very small white spot on the back of the heel. I did it because that's a local guideline, and to ignore the guideline would have certainly created some consequences for me, even if the white spot was acceptable in other parts of the country.

"All politics is local." (Former Speaker of the U.S. House Tip O'Neill)

JRutledge Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905944)
Of course they don't. They'd be stupid to wear one. If an official doesn't do what he is taught to do, then he should expect some consequences.

There are absolutely no consequences if I wear a belt in my little corner of Connecticut, however, I do not expect that that would be true all over the country, or for that matter, all over the State of Connecticut.
OK, you said you never worked the playoffs or a State Final if I am not mistaken. Do you think that might be one of the reasons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905947)
None of my comments are in any way related to college. I don't work college games. My local association doesn't train for, or assign, college games. Only a very small percentage of officials in my local high school board work college games, although that percentage is slowly increasing, especially for womens college games.
My point is you do what it expected. College is not a completely foregin entity to officiating. I have worked college in 3 sports and what the college guys do, we do at the high school level. There might be some very minor differences like the actual shirt that is worn, but the basics are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905948)
Because they were probably taught that, as well as a lot of other stuff about their uniforms (no lanyard, noose lanyard, regular Smitty, extra long Smitty, all black shoes, some white allowed on shoes, Fox 40 whistle, other brand non-pea whistle, different size Fox 40's, jacket styles, patches of various types, anniversary pins allowed on jackets, location of American flags on shirts, or jackets, etc.). How about hair, or facial hair, or wedding bands, etc.? Sure it would great if we all looked the same, but local traditions will prevail until there is some type of national high school association, and I doubt that that will exist before I'm on the wrong side of the grass.
All these things you mentioned have standards or expectations too on some level. And if you wear a mullet you might not get games either. I even work for one assignor that asks his officials to not have a beard or hair on the chin. If you want to work for him, you do it that way or he will find someone that will. Officials want to work in that conference so they do it. It is that simple. We all have choices in life. You can be right and dead at the same time.

Peace

BillyMac Wed Sep 25, 2013 06:14am
Cum Romano Romanus Eris. ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905965)
You said you never worked the playoffs or a State Final. Do you think that might be one of the reasons?
Absolutely not. Coaches select all state tournament officials and I guarantee that they aren't looking at belts, or no belts; white on shoes, or no white on shoes; noose lanyard, Smitty lanyard, or no lanyard; properly placed American flag, improperly placed American flag, or no American flag; Fox 40, or smaller Fox 40, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905965)
My point is you do what it expected.
Thanks for agreeing with me. I am doing exactly what's expected of me, as are all 325 members on my local board, some who do what's expected by wearing belts, and others who do what's expected by wearing beltless slacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 905965)
All these things you mentioned have standards or expectations too on some level.
Which is exactly the point that I was trying to make. Our local standards, in regard to uniforms, are apparently vastly different than most uniform standards all over the country (regions, states, local associations).

"All politics is local." (Former Speaker of the U.S. House Tip O'Neill, 1935)

"The siesto, or afternoon's nap of Italy, my most dear and reverend Father, would not have alarmed you so much, if you had recollected, that when we are at Rome, we should do as the Romans do." (Pope Clement XIV, 1777)

BillyMac Wed Sep 25, 2013 06:21am
Back To Our Regularly Scheduled Programming ...
 
I ordered my matte finish Reebok Zig Energy Refs last night. Thanks to AremRed, bob jenkins, and Bad Zebra for suggesting Purchase Officials.

Wait? I hope that wearing matte finish Zig Energy Refs instead of patent leather Zig Energy Refs doesn't create the same problem as wearing a belt versus wearing beltless slacks. Maybe I should cancel my order? I should check this out. Now, who should I ask? The Official Forum? Or my local association? What's an official, here in my little corner of Connecticut, to do?

Welpe Wed Sep 25, 2013 08:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 905973)
Wait? I hope that wearing matte finish Zig Energy Refs instead of patent leather Zig Energy Refs doesn't create the same problem as wearing a belt versus wearing beltless slacks. Maybe I should cancel my order? I should check this out. Now, who should I ask? The Official Forum? Or my local association? What's an official, here in my little corner of Connecticut, to do?
Just pour another bag of magnesium in the pond why don't you? :)

Glad you ordered you found and ordered the shoes you wanted, time to move on folks.


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