I blew the whistle on 4 occaisons and called for purple to break the huddle.

Summer league... hot headed coach.. almost got him a t in the first quater (1:00 in) told him we werent gunna take his attitude like that again. Wanred him one more time. A T woulda made my game a hell so I warned him again at half time. Coming out of half time Horn blows (still in huddle). I walk to the far side to puit the ball in (Horn blows again?) I call for Green as it is there ball. "PURPLE! Lets break the huddle" Coach looked up. I blew my whistle again. Said PURPLE BREAK THE HUDDLE! _ waited 3 seconds. Blew my whistle again. Waited 3 seconds. Blew my whistle and handed to green for the throw-in. Coach went ballistic. Finally called a time out and as i was reporting said he wanted to talk to me. "Ok coach but if you stop talking I'm walking away" So he starts actually talkking instead of screaming .. i said. "Well you had a 15 second warning horn. an end of halftime horn. A Whistle... A whistle... a whistle..." Not my fault you didnt get ur playes on the court.I let you know the quater begin, we dont have to wait on you to finsih ur huddle."
he looked at me took a deep breath and acted like he wanted to yell
"Now coach, I did everything I could but physically walk over there and pull your players on the court to play basketball."

I walked off. He ended up winning despite this.

He had 8 girls on the bench. Other team had 4. We let em play 4 on 4. He's got wayyyyyy too much excitemnet for 7-10 year old girls in my opinon but oh well. He'll get taken care of eventually.

You're young and still have a lot to learn, Rook. Please consider reply as constructive advice.

This is a bit unprofessional on your part. Give the coach a stop sign and simply say, "Coach, that's enough." All you did was inflame the situation by popping off about his attitude.

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Wanred him one more time.

Why? You've warned him once, why warn him again?

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A T woulda made my game a hell so I warned him again at half time.

Why do you continue to warn him? You're like the boy who cried wolf. Listen to him, ignore him when it's apparent that he's just ranting, warn him when you can't take anymore, and whack him the next time. If you keep warning him, he'll continue to ignore you. Make sense?

Quote:

Coming out of half time Horn blows (still in huddle). I walk to the far side to puit the ball in (Horn blows again?) I call for Green as it is there ball. "PURPLE! Lets break the huddle" Coach looked up. I blew my whistle again. Said PURPLE BREAK THE HUDDLE! _ waited 3 seconds. Blew my whistle again. Waited 3 seconds. Blew my whistle and handed to green for the throw-in.

Wrong pardner. The resuming play procedure is to be used after timeouts and between quarters, NOT AT THE BEGINNING OF A HALF. If he delays for a full minute through not being ready when it is time to start either half, it's a technical foul. That means he gets one full minute to have his team on the floor after the horn sounds ending halftime. (9-5-1a)

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Coach went ballistic. Finally called a time out and as i was reporting said he wanted to talk to me. "Ok coach but if you stop talking I'm walking away" So he starts actually talkking instead of screaming .. i said. "Well you had a 15 second warning horn. an end of halftime horn. A Whistle... A whistle... a whistle..." Not my fault you didnt get ur playes on the court.I let you know the quater begin, we dont have to wait on you to finsih ur huddle." he looked at me took a deep breath and acted like he wanted to yell "Now coach, I did everything I could but physically walk over there and pull your players on the court to play basketball."

As I said, he was right and you were wrong. Work on being more professional in these cases. Let him be the one that shows everyone how immature he is and then, don't stoop to his level. Hopefully, it will come with experience. Good luck to ya!

[Edited by BktBallRef on Aug 3rd, 2003 at 10:17 PM]

Understand what you are there for. These are 7-10 year old girls. This is supposed to be fun and a learning experience for them. Every player on both teams will have forgotten about the game an hour after it's over--some of them sooner! If the coach needs more time to explain something to start halftime, so be it. (If he was just testing you by delaying, then yes, you should've called the T, not the resuming play procedure.)

All in all, at this level, you really have to throw out the book a lot of times. I filled in for my JH coach at our JH summer league one Saturday this summer. At least three or four times I went right out on the court after a ball went OOB or before some foul shots to explain something. I spent the first five minutes of the second half standing under the opponent's basket because some of them weren't in the proper position on defense in the first half and I wanted to instruct them.

All games are different. From the NCAA Final Four to the 7-10 year old girls.

That's all good advice, Tony.
Good job.

Are you leaving something out?
 

Ace,

What made this coach "hot headed," outside of this incident?

Peace

The rules cite on a delay at the start of the half, for others who may want to look it up, is 10-1-5-a

I guess you got the message by now...1 warning at most

:)

Quote:

Coming out of half time Horn blows (still in huddle). I walk to the far side to puit the ball in (Horn blows again?) I call for Green as it is there ball. "PURPLE! Lets break the huddle" Coach looked up....

I guess you also know when to use the resuming play procedure & when to T! :)

My comment here is that these situations almost always go smoother if one of you (prefer the U in 2 man) just walk over to the huddle & tell the coach we're ready to go. More often than not he'll look up & say "OK, sorry" and you can continue without all this needless bother.

Ace,
Here are two things I noticed that might help you.

The vast majority of officials only use the colors which are monosyllabic. Therefore, you should be telling "Blue" to break their huddle.

This is a fundamental problem in your thought process as an official which you must change.
What actually made your game hell was that you continued to warn the coach instead of simply giving an appropriate T.
I believe this is a common misconception among many newer officials. They believe that a T will make a bad situation worse, when, in fact, it will often settle things down. My experience has been that used properly the technical foul is a necessary tool for establishing or maintaining control. Far too many officials are simply afraid of using it.

One additional point on using the T--you must deliver it professionally and unemotionally. Sure, you may be angry, but make sure the delivery, administration, and subsequent interactions with the offender are professional and unemotional. The T will not improve the situation if it feels like the official is lashing out. It's just business. I'm sure you're aware of this, but it never hurts to say it again. Good luck

All good comments, hope you take them to heart and improve.

One thing I experienced earlier this year. We had a coach that started in on me and my partner early (seemed like before the toss but it wasn't). We both used the usual comments in an attempt to calm him down. Right before the end of the first quarter he starts yelling about a call made my partner, who gives him the stop sign and tells him he has heard enough. Coach yells "I complain as much as I damn well like!" Partner T's him. I get to the coach and try to calm him down and inform him that he now needs to remain seated. In a loud voice he states that "This is rec ball, Fed rules don't apply!". I finally get him to take a seat.

Early in the second, I look up and he is near the baseline yapping away. I tell him to have a seat. Same thing next 2 times down the floor. I'm getting to my line when my partner stops play for a white time out. I stop him from starting the time on the TO for a minute and pull both coaches together, explain to the other coach that I just wanted him to know the nature of my discussion with the other coach, then say "Coach, you know very well that the first thing in the league rules states that NFHS rules apply in all instances with the following exceptions and then it list them. Not listed amoung them is your ability to use the coaches box after the first T. You will need to refrain from going down the the baseline and up to center court." Then I walk away. Next trip down the floor not only is he at the baseline, I run into him backing out of the way of a loose ball going OOB, and he has the nerve to yell at me for blocking his player. TWEET, see ya coach!

All that to say, make sure you or your partner can stay unemotional after the T and explain the situation. Things can easily get worse if you can't control your emotions. Most of the time when I see a coach get a T in rec ball, he ends up missing the end of the game.

Larry,if you re-read the comments above that you're referring to,they're all pretty well unanimous in saying that one warning is all that you should give.I agree with that completely.If you're warning someone repeatedly for the same thing,it's no wonder that they tend to ignore you if you're not going to do anything. If you read your post above,you warned the coach 3 times after he got his T.If you're just gonna warn and not do anything about it,of course the coach is gonna ignore you.That's the exact same mistake that Ace made in his situation. Just something to think about.

Hot Headed Coach...

T-d him 4 times in 4 seperate incidents during winter ball.

Has a habit of throwing clipboard down.

Was almost banned from coaching t-ball.

Was almost banned from coaching basketball.

Almost had his rec center privileges revoked by the Home Owners Association (whos in charge of the subdivison in which the league resides).

BUT he took some anger management classes and stuff and supposidly he's supposed to be alot better. He always tells the commishoner thatits personal when Im reffing his game. I told one time, Scott, Its not personal man, I hope you realize that. Im here to do my job just like your here to do yours.

I've told my assignor I dont want any games with him as a coach. I'm not the only one who complains ... he needs to be used someplace besides a coach.

We played 4 on 4 this particular game. He had all 8 players on present. Other only had 4. He was nice enough to pull his 5th. But yeah. The other team was down BIG TIME and he was full court pressin. It was ridiculus. The game ended up gettting close as my partner started getting tight on this purple team..


I've treid the one syllable thing but no one seems to pick up on it. Even if I pregame it.

BTW _ thanks for all the replys. I wouldnt be the official I am today without all you guys advice and slaps across the back of the head for some of the things i do.

#1 - ace, it doesn't matter if the guy was Bobby Knight. You can't control how the coach conducts himself but you can damn sure control how you conduct yourself. You made mistakes, now correct those mistakes with the info given and be a better official because of it.

#2 - You don't have to pregame color. Before you toss the ball, instruct the teams, the scorer and your partner that we have blue and white. Then you use blue whether anyone else gets it right or not. End of discussion.

Do work any camps anywhere man? If so I wann go!

By the way under NFHS rules this is NOT permissible. I understand that you are doing a rec league for little girls, and may have made an exception due to this, but don't ever do this in a HS game of any level. There are actually two rules you are setting aside here. You incorrectly let one team start with fewer than five and then you allowed the other team to illegally remove a player. Sorry to say Ace, but is seems like you could have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble, if you had correctly never even started the game. Here are the rule cites:

3-1-1 Note: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five.

Casebook 3.1.1 After six players have been disqualified, Team A has only four who are eligible to continue in the game as players. In a gesture of fair play, the coach of Team B indicates a desire to withdraw a player so that each team will have four players on the court. Ruling: This is not permissible. Team B must have five players participating as long as it has that number available. If no substitute is available, a team must continue with fewer than five players. When only one player remains to participate, that team shall forfeit the game unless the referee believes this team still has an opportunity to win the game.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Aug 6th, 2003 at 12:23 AM]

Technically I didn't warn him, I asked him to have a seat :D

However, you are right and in a "real" game he would have made an exit earlier. In this case I was simply trying to be "nice" and keep him in the rec game. I knew that was not my job, but for the sake of the kids I tried. They stayed close until the coach left but the "assistant" couldn't seem to figure out how to adjust. It was really a shame, the players listened to the coach when he wasn't yapping at the officials.

These were young kids and in rec ball I tend to put up with more from the coach than with the older kids.

You know, you just can't help some people. :)

My experience has been just the opposite, right or wrong. I know I can say a lot more to the officials in a varsity game than I ever could get away with in a JV game. I also know I feel like a schmuck saying anything to the officials during a summer league or youth league game, when there are so many things my players are doing wrong that need correction.

I'm with you, Coach. I'll listen to a HS Varsity coach talk a little longer (and a college coach even a little longer than that) than I will listen to a JV or especially a youth league coach. Many of the lower level coaches just have no idea that there is a limit, let alone where it is. So I tend to T a lot quicker in youth league games. Just my experience.

Excuse me for the confusion. My rec ball level of tolerance is typically a lot lower than varsity or JV. In rec ball, particularly when the kids are young, if the coach spends some time coaching and the kids seem to be listening (as opposed to clling him a jerk under their breath) I will put up with a little more. This day I was trying to be in a particularly forgiving mood.

I guess my tolerance level resembles an inverted bell curve (from high to low to high with Rec Varsity at the bottom)...HS Varsity, HS JV, HS Sub-JV, JH, Rec Varsity, Rec JV, Rec HS sub-JV, Rec JH, Rec younger than JH.