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-   -   The Worst Error You've ever made reffing a game? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/95832-worst-error-youve-ever-made-reffing-game.html)

Travelling Man Tue Aug 13, 2013 07:48pm

The Worst Error You've ever made reffing a game?
 
Since we are all "invisible"--and presumably un-traceable--please share with the forum what you feel was the worst blunder, missed call, error, or mishap you've made while working a game.

I'll go first, I inadvertently called a throw-in violation based on a 3-second call instead of a 5-second call and this caused a loss of possession by the eventual winning team.

I missed a call on a "jump ball" situtaion when the defender blocked the shot while shooter still had ball--you know the simultaneous "shot attempt - blocked shot"--I mistakenly called travelling. uggghhh so mad at myself--grrr!

But, I must say I've learned from all of these blunders.

Adam Tue Aug 13, 2013 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelling Man (Post 902523)
Since we are all "invisible"--and presumably un-traceable--please share with the forum what you feel was the worst blunder, missed call, error, or mishap you've made while working a game.

I'll go first, I inadvertently called a throw-in violation based on a 3-second call instead of a 5-second call and this caused a loss of possession by the eventual winning team.

I missed a call on a "jump ball" situtaion when the defender blocked the shot while shooter still had ball--you know the simultaneous "shot attempt - blocked shot"--I mistakenly called travelling. uggghhh so mad at myself--grrr!

But, I must say I've learned from all of these blunders.

If these are your worst calls, then you haven't been doing this very long.

Raymond Tue Aug 13, 2013 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 902526)
If these are your worst calls, then you haven't been doing this very long.

My immediate thoughts while I was reading. Those are rather minor. Especially considering some of the errors we've all witnessed made by highly esteemed Final Four officials.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelling Man (Post 902523)
...uggghhh so mad at myself--grrr!

But, I must say I've learned from all of these blunders.

For some reason the word "disingenuous" is floating through my head.

Bad Zebra Tue Aug 13, 2013 08:14pm

Thread deja vu?
 
Seems like I've answered this question a time or two before.

One of my favorites early on in my career: Called a three second violation...on a defensive player.

More than one occasion (also pretty early on), blew whistle, indicate two shots to my partner, proceed to reporting area, completely forgot who I called the foul on. DOH! :eek:

Travelling Man Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:33pm

[QUOTE=BadNewsRef;902528]My immediate thoughts while I was reading. Those are rather minor. Especially considering some of the errors we've all witnessed made by highly esteemed Final Four officials.

*It's all relative, the stakes are high [no pun intended] for all levels of refs. Just because one is "final four" level ref doesn't imbue infallability.

Adam Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 902528)
My immediate thoughts while I was reading. Those are rather minor. Especially considering some of the errors we've all witnessed made by highly esteemed Final Four officials.

Agreed. Those wouldn't even register on my season list, let alone my career list.

Travelling Man Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 902529)
Seems like I've answered this question a time or two before.

One of my favorites early on in my career: Called a three second violation...on a defensive player.

More than one occasion (also pretty early on), blew whistle, indicate two shots to my partner, proceed to reporting area, completely forgot who I called the foul on. DOH! :eek:

*Thanks for sharing BadZebr. I recall my mind wandered a few times--especially during a blow out game--that I forgot who to award a throw in possession to after a time out break. In fact, that 's one thing I really need to improve on: staying really alert on blow out types of games late in the period.

BillyMac Wed Aug 14, 2013 06:20am

Bad Zebra, Is That You, On Television, From The Barclays Center ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 902529)
Called a three second violation...on a defensive player.

NBA rule?

Welpe Wed Aug 14, 2013 08:26am

My worst was not calling a flagrant foul on a play where a defender deliberately clotheslined the ball handler on a full sprint towards his basket. My partner talked me into going intentional and I let him. Looking back on it, there's no way it wasn't flagrant.

My runner up was giving the inbounding team the ball on their end line instead of on the opponent's where it should have been. I was working by myself and we had just come out of a timeout and I got turned around. Whoops.

Bad Zebra Wed Aug 14, 2013 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 902546)
NBA rule?

Hardly...was a MS Boys game if memory serves (and even that is suspect). Packed gym though...I could feel the collective "WTF?" from the crowd.

Toren Wed Aug 14, 2013 09:00am

Couldn't think of much
 
But I remember distinctly two calls:

First: player goes in for a layup, lays the ball of the glass, defender tries to block it and hits the backboard. The backboard rattles as a result and here comes my whistle...tweet, goaltending. At the time I blew, I knew it wasn't a violation, but I didn't have much experience with above the rim plays, so I blew. Nobody said a word. Luckily enough it was a blow out game.

Secondly: Player A shoots the ball, Team B goes up to secure the rebound, before they grab the ball, Player B gets fouled. Team B is in the bonus. I call the foul, don't award the shot. What makes this worse, is I explained to the coach, "there is no team control on a shot, so that's why you don't get to shoot free throws"...wow, precisely inaccurate is how I would describe that :D

scrounge Wed Aug 14, 2013 09:27am

Called what was in hindsight a completely phantom traveling call on a somewhat-clumsy girl (Girls JV) that fumbled a throw-in. Generally no biggie...except her team was up by 1 point. With 3 seconds left. After a time out, the opposing team throws it from the division line spot to a girl who got free under the basket and laid it in for the winning basket right before the buzzer. An irate mom came out the stands and swung her purse at me, but I saw her coming and ducked away. Oy.

So not really the worst error (there've been PLENTY of WTF ones) but certainly the worst related to the immediate aftermath and consequences.

Freddy Wed Aug 14, 2013 09:30am

Since We're All Dumping On Ourselves . . .
 
My very worst was . . .
Boys' frosh game, two-man with a Slinky partner. Five seconds for home inbounding team, down by two, to go length of court to launch a shot to tie or win. Clock not easily visible to me in extremely noisy gym, with fans, players, and coaches all screaming, as ball is dribbled past a picket fence of defenders, each a potential fouler I had to keep an eye on. Dribbler coming inches from touching sideline in front of benches, which I had to keep an eye on. He launches an off-balance three-point attempt with defender's hand up and nearly blocking the ball, which I had to keep my eye on. While my eyes were engaged on everything necessary, my ears were not--I could not hear the horn. Shot went in. Was it in time? I could not tell. Slinky partner, with nothing whatsoever to do this whole time was no help since he had checked out and assumed I had all aspects of this play as my exclusive responsibility. I went with my gut and banged it "Good!" and ran to the locker room.
Scorer, a trustworthy veteran, came in and asked what I thought. I told him. He said, "Wish you woulda asked me. The buzzer went off before the shot was released." He was from the home team, but woulda informed me that the visitors had won if I had checked with him at the table.
Lesson for me: better diligence on last-second shot responsibilities. And, since the book does consider any information the scorer might have as valid input to consider, consult with them before making a final decision if necessary.
There, I feel better.
Still trying to "burn the tape" on that one.

SWMOzebra Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:13am

My worst no-call
 
BV game in late February a couple of years ago, working two-person with an experienced partner. SRO in the gym, officials' locker room is behind home bench. Home team played a terrible first half and was down 14 when Q3 started. The second half was fast and furious, few fouls called as the boys were playing fairly clean. My P and I were mostly trying to stay out of the way.

16 seconds left in the game, home team scores to tie the ball game. I am old L becoming new T opposite the table, there is no backcourt pressure. I'm trailing the player about 4 steps and probably about 3 steps to his right, he is dribbling with his left hand. I can see the defense set up in a 3-2, I can see the V bench if the coach decides to call a TO, I felt like I was in the perfect position.

Just as he crosses the half court line, I see the back of his right arm move oddly (remember, I'm trailing). Of course, my first thought is "he just double-dribbled" but since I didn't actually see it, I don't blow my whistle. However, I'm about the only one in this small gym who DOESN'T see the double-dribble. Home coach is screaming, fans are screaming ... visitor coach is shouting at his player to hold the ball at about the 8 second mark. Home team stops playing defense out of frustration with my no-call and thinking game will go to OT. Ball handler makes a quick bounce pass into the post and the receiver spins, putting the ball in the hole. Then the horn sounds. :(

Mark Padgett Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:54am

The first year I ever reffed (after my training by Dr. Naismith) I was working a 6th grade girls rec game. The other ref was in his first year also and was a teenager, so he kind of let me be the ref "in charge". A1 went to the line for two shots. She violated on the first and I ruled she also lost the second shot because of the violation. The coach, who happened to be not only her father, but also an ex-NBA player, didn't really argue but "teased" me a little about the call a few times during the rest of the game. He always had a big smile and a friendly chuckle when he did it and his comments were somewhat friendly and funny, so I just returned his smile and didn't create an issue with him.

Oh yeah, I remember one time I made a mistake of not hitting a coach over the head with a frying pan when he mouthed off and wouldn't sit down. I've never made that mistake again. :)

BigT Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:03am

Some of my many ones..
 
Game started and the poor kid got the tip and scored in the wrong basket. I then gave the other team the ball, as everyone was confused, and allowed them to try to score. Couldnt believe I didnt process that one correctly.

Another summer high school league and two rivals were playing. A kid got knocked down on a rebound and didnt appreciate it so he grabs the rebounders leg has he starts a break. Easy I have a call and the kid grabbed starts to kick at the kid who fouled him. People start to come off the bench and two guys getting water run onto the court. I didnt eject them. Clearly that would have been my first solid ejection.

Last another game a shorter power forward is getting out rebuonded all game by Dennis Rodman. This time he sees Dennis flying in the air to snag yet another rebound and as he looks up at his trajectory he moves 3 feet so he has no where to land. He of course comes down on this guys back slides to the floor with a massive smack! That is clearly an intentional foul and all I had was a regular foul.

So many lessons learned. Thanks for sharing today.

Rufus Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren (Post 902558)
But I remember distinctly two calls:

First: player goes in for a layup, lays the ball of the glass, defender tries to block it and hits the backboard. The backboard rattles as a result and here comes my whistle...tweet, goaltending. At the time I blew, I knew it wasn't a violation, but I didn't have much experience with above the rim plays, so I blew. Nobody said a word. Luckily enough it was a blow out game.

Secondly: Player A shoots the ball, Team B goes up to secure the rebound, before they grab the ball, Player B gets fouled. Team B is in the bonus. I call the foul, don't award the shot. What makes this worse, is I explained to the coach, "there is no team control on a shot, so that's why you don't get to shoot free throws"...wow, precisely inaccurate is how I would describe that :D

Frightening in that mine are both in these two scenarios with a bit of a twist:

First: same situation only I called a technical for slapping the backboard (proving that a little knowledge along with a lack of game experience are truly not a good combination).

Second (before team control on inbounds): Coming out of a timeout I remind my partners that team A is in the bonus. On an inbound soon after I hand the ball to B1, watch B2 foul A, call the foul and proceed to give the ball to A for a throw in. Correctable error time and my crew chief bailed us out, but not a fun conversation with B's coach.

AremRed Wed Aug 14, 2013 01:46pm

First 8th grade game: Team A scores a basket and forms up to press. B1 passes the ball along the endline to B2. This looks really weird. I call a violation and give the ball to Team A. At halftime I check my rulebook and right next to the rule is a red question mark I wrote down a few months earlier indicating I didn't understand what that rule meant. When I came out after halftime, Coach B was waiting for me. Holding a rulebook in his hand.

First varsity game: also my first three-man game, I had a block/charge play which I got right. I was so focused on making the right call that I forgot the number of the player who committed the foul. Reported the wrong number, won't do that again.

BillyMac Wed Aug 14, 2013 05:13pm

Player Control Follies ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 902586)
I had a block/charge play which I got right. I was so focused on making the right call that I forgot the number of the player who committed the foul.

Most player control (charge) calls here in my little corner of two person Connecticut are taken by the lead. I'm pretty close, but not exact, to the book in my player control signal. I usually take a step, or two, onto the court as I sound my whistle (look at me, I'm about to make a big block/charge call), signal the foul with a fist in the air, put the other hand behind my head for the player control foul, and then point in the other direction for the next possession, while at the same time stating, "Player control. Blue ball". Sometimes I have to use the no basket signal. At this point, for some unknown reason, I have crept up a few more steps off the endline, and with the torso to torso contact, I have yet to see the number the offending player. At this time the two players involved have both fallen to the floor, are usually in a pile on the floor, and they're usually slightly behind me (those little creeping steps add up). Now I have to take a few steps toward the two players to get things sorted out (like a football official separating players after a fumble), and then grab the number before I approach the reporting area. It's never easy, it happens about a dozen times every season, for the past thirty-two years. I've tried to break this bad creeping habit, but old habits, especially bad habits, die hard.

BillyMac Wed Aug 14, 2013 05:31pm

Most Embarrassing Moment ...
 
I won't go into the details because I've described the play several times on the Forum already. After a successful free throw by Team B, as Team A is bringing the ball up the court against pressure from Team B, I get to a count of ten and call a ten second backcourt violation against Team A. Team A coach goes bananas as he's pointing to the game clock, something about only seven seconds running off the clock since the successful free throw. I have to T him up. On the ride home, discussing the play with my partner, we decide that I probably turned a five second inbound count (maybe three seconds) into a ten second backcourt count (seven more seconds), without resetting in between the two counts. That's why we're supposed to change hands with each separate count.

grunewar Wed Aug 14, 2013 06:11pm

Many yrs ago, in one of my first MS games (before even reading the rules and taking the test), I called a 5 second closely guarded violation IN THE BACK COURT! :o Oh, the horror!

My partner was like, :confused:

Texas Aggie Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:34pm

Honestly, based on the calls I and partners have made (or not made) and missed, NOTHING comes close to problems caused by others -- usually scorers and timers. I don't mean to pick on these guys because 98% of the time, they do a good job and get it right, but when they mess up, particularly the timer, things go to hell faster than you can say, "I love my mother-in-law."

I was watching a game a few years ago when the timer started the clock when the team doing the throw in passed along the baseline out of bounds. Nobody really noticed the clock starting since everyone was watching the play but when the buzzer went off in 3 seconds rather than 5 or 6, it was obvious something got screwed up. Then, they reset the clock and do it again, only the clock guy set it for 6 MINUTES rather than seconds, and the buzzer never goes off! They reset for a third time (I don't know why, other than the screaming by one of the coaches got to them) and the game ends like it should.

The officials did NOTHING wrong (except allow the third replay -- should have ended the game or at worst, put a second back on the clock and go throw in) and yet I'm sure were blamed.

JetMetFan Thu Aug 15, 2013 06:02am

In the "little bit of knowledge is a bad thing" category, this one happened while I was officiating intramurals in college. We had a good program so I'd gotten into the rule book and discovered the ball is dead immediately after a made FG/FT.

Team A makes a FG and Team B hasn't picked up the ball to inbound it. Team A has a sub at the table...so, knowing the ball was dead and remembering subs can enter on a dead ball, I let A6 into the game. Kind of like a line change in hockey. Everyone just started shaking their heads.

Multiple Sports Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:46pm

Mine is a no - call .......
 
I can remember getting punked a few times by coaches as a young official and not stepping up and giving a technical foul....

Driving four hrs home and realizing I left my stones at home really pissed me off.....doesn't happen anymore !!!

grunewar Fri Aug 16, 2013 01:17pm

Good point
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 902710)
I can remember getting punked a few times by coaches as a young official and not stepping up and giving a technical foul....

Driving four hrs home and realizing i left my stones at home really pissed me off.....doesn't happen anymore !!!

This is something I still need to work on. My tolerance level is way too high.

Multiple Sports Fri Aug 16, 2013 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 902713)
This is something I still need to work on. My tolerance level is way too high.

Grun -

Here is what I learned regarding this....I didn't whack college coaches when started doing college because I was still in that "friend " mode from hs. Also too many hs assigners don't want you giving T's because they want to keep their contracts ( $$$$$ ) and T's get coaches upset...

I learned the opposite in college ball. If you aren't goint to take care of business in a college game, then good riddance.... the college supervisor can get someone else real quick......there are thousands of U2's

Grun - what's up with your NADS ( NATS )........the GONADS have looked preety weak and shriveled up since the All Star break !!!!! Don't come up 95 to the "Yard" or Chris Davis might have to smack you around .......:D:D:D:D

grunewar Fri Aug 16, 2013 02:30pm

MS - I appreciate the advice. I DO need to take care of business a bit more quickly and not give them so much leash.

On the NADS - Disappointing season. High expectations, lack of timely hitting (Laroche mostly) and inconsistent relief pitching. Was at the Phils vs Nats game this past Saturday. Nothing those Phila fans hate worse than Werth hitting an HR for the win. Much fun. Plus, tailgating at the park is great - right LCUBED?

On the O's - was up at the Yard a few weeks back for the Tigers series. One of the better games I've been to lately. Davis went yard. A good time!

Be well.

bigcityballer Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:19am

Non Call
 
Four games into my officiating career, I missed an offensive player stepping on the baseline. The offensive player made a really nice series of moves to get by the defender. As he plants his feet to go up for the dunk he clearly steps on the baseline. The beaten defender pointed to the spot and yelled he stepped out. BUT I had taken my whistle out of my mouth to say, "Oh, man nice move" and watched the dunk. I knew he stepped out but felt it was too late to call it after he dunked and my stupid comment. At any rate, I quit the association at the weeks end and went back to coaching. I was not missed.:rolleyes:

jeremy341a Mon Aug 26, 2013 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigcityballer (Post 903523)
Four games into my officiating career, I missed an offensive player stepping on the baseline. The offensive player made a really nice series of moves to get by the defender. As he plants his feet to go up for the dunk he clearly steps on the baseline. The beaten defender pointed to the spot and yelled he stepped out. BUT I had taken my whistle out of my mouth to say, "Oh, man nice move" and watched the dunk. I knew he stepped out but felt it was too late to call it after he dunked and my stupid comment. At any rate, I quit the association at the weeks end and went back to coaching. I was not missed.:rolleyes:

You couldn't call it anyways. It was too athletic to penalize.

OKREF Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:23am

This summer at camp, biggest brain fart I've ever had. 3 man mechanics. Free throw late in the game. Shooting team down 1, under 20 seconds left, second free throw. Shooter shoots the shot, runs about five feet in before the shot hits the rim. Makes the shot. I step in call a violation and wave off the bucket. Only problem is I was in the trail position. The "C" said he just missed it. It was so egregious, I just saw it and reacted.

MD Longhorn Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:13pm

Worst --- 2-3 seconds left, White down by one on a breakaway (and most likely would have scored had I not stopped play), I see a foul and blow the whistle.

Problem was, the foul was on Blue 24 ... who had just run up the back of, and knocked over, Blue 42.

Then White did not score on the throw in.

APG Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903784)
This summer at camp, biggest brain fart I've ever had. 3 man mechanics. Free throw late in the game. Shooting team down 1, under 20 seconds left, second free throw. Shooter shoots the shot, runs about five feet in before the shot hits the rim. Makes the shot. I step in call a violation and wave off the bucket. Only problem is I was in the trail position. The "C" said he just missed it. It was so egregious, I just saw it and reacted.

I see nothing wrong with this? :confused:

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri Aug 30, 2013 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 903802)
I see nothing wrong with this? :confused:

Neither do I.

MTD, Sr.

OKREF Fri Aug 30, 2013 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 903802)
I see nothing wrong with this? :confused:

Well I was at the trail, at around half court. Staffers asked me what I was looking at. If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle. I didn't even realize it wasn't mine until we went down the court.

APG Fri Aug 30, 2013 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903916)
Well I was at the trail, at around half court. Staffers asked me what I was looking at. If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle. I didn't even realize it wasn't mine until we went down the court.

If it's as blatant and obvious as you're making it out to be and you gave the center an opportunity to get it, then I don't see the problem or error in getting this.

Rich Fri Aug 30, 2013 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 903918)
If it's as blatant and obvious as you're making it out to be and you gave the center an opportunity to get it, then I don't see the problem or error in getting this.

Me either. If you hadn't gotten it, they probably would've ripped you for not "saving the crew." And yes, some evaluators are like that.

AremRed Fri Aug 30, 2013 05:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903916)
Well I was at the trail, at around half court. Staffers asked me what I was looking at. If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle. I didn't even realize it wasn't mine until we went down the court.

As I learned recently, there is a lot of "do as I say, not as I do" among camp clinicians. Beware.

Bad Zebra Fri Aug 30, 2013 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903916)
If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle.

So, by this reasoning...a crew meeting...followed by a declaration of "inadvertent whistle"..followed by a PLAY ON? All because your partners were asleep? So you pass on the correct call because it's technically the wrong mechanic? What kind of camp was this???:confused:

Raymond Fri Aug 30, 2013 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903916)
Well I was at the trail, at around half court. Staffers asked me what I was looking at. If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle. I didn't even realize it wasn't mine until we went down the court.

That's crazy. So an obvious violation gets ignored b/c of mechanics? From what I've been taught in a 3-man crew the trail is responsible for helping the Lead and Slot with obvious fouls/violations.

OKREF Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 903939)
That's crazy. So an obvious violation gets ignored b/c of mechanics? From what I've been taught in a 3-man crew the trail is responsible for helping the Lead and Slot with obvious fouls/violations.

It was blatant. A player on the bench from the shooters own team, asked me after the game, what I called. I told him and he said yea, I could see that. They told me the trail should never call a violation because he has no responsibilities on the free throw as far as the lane and shooter are concerned.

OKREF Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 903932)
So, by this reasoning...a crew meeting...followed by a declaration of "inadvertent whistle"..followed by a PLAY ON? All because your partners were asleep? So you pass on the correct call because it's technically the wrong mechanic? What kind of camp was this???:confused:

State association sponsored camp.

Bad Zebra Sat Aug 31, 2013 07:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903953)
State association sponsored camp.

In that context, then I'm not surprised. Some of our state "philosophies" are real head scratchers. Just the same, I disagree with their recommendation...never pass on a correct call just to protect protocol.

BktBallRef Sat Aug 31, 2013 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 903916)
Well I was at the trail, at around half court. Staffers asked me what I was looking at. If the C didn't get I shouldn't have. They told me we should have gotten together as a crew and came up with an inadvertent whistle. I didn't even realize it wasn't mine until we went down the court.

That's the problem with camps. Staffers are more worried about their damn philosophies than getting the call right! :mad:

BillyMac Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:08am

The 800 Pound White Elephant In The Room (How's That For Mixing Metaphors?) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 903962)
... never pass on a correct call just to protect protocol.

Elephants and ants. Felonies and misdemeanors. Apples and oranges. Wait? I'm being told ... What? Doesn't apply? Elephants and ants. Felonies and misdemeanors


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