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Forum Ettiquette
Not the place for a referendum on the merits of any individual poster.
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We’re trying to strike a balance between allowing for some leeway and levity, and keeping things on topic. What we don’t want is threads devolving into a 20-car pileup with one member on the bottom. For those who think a particular member is getting carried away, you have a few options (and some have taken advantage of them).
Again, what we're not wanting is what amounts to a public flogging (yes, I realize I'm exaggerating.) |
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And it would be nice if even the jokes are related to the topic, but they never are. Peace |
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Unfortunately, there is also an Option 5, which is those that take such offense and are so unhappy might depart the Forum and not come back as they are too angered and don't find the Forum enjoyable or useful.
Hope it doesn't come to that. :( |
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Part of the pm option, however, includes requests / reminders to pull back the reigns a bit. In trying to strike the balance, we sometimes miss and are open to communication in that vein. Also, some of you have off board contact info for some of the moderators. I've had lots of feedback through those channels. |
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Coming Clean ...
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However, if the powers to be, or the Forum membership, decides that this Forum will be 100% serious, then I can go along with that. The old NFHS forum, that some of us posted on, was a 100% serious forum, and those that posted on that know that I was, and can be, serious all the time when it's expected. But when I log on and see a few tidbits of off the topic material from other Forum members, maybe funny, or an inside joke, or something else along those same lines, then I feel that I have the right to join in. Yes I post these tidbits more frequently than others, I was not aware that there was Forum limit to such postings. My son is a sociologist, who specializes in popular culture, so I have a interest in popular culture as well, and will occasionally spice up my posts with some popular culture references (television shows, song lyrics, quotations, etc.) Basketball, for me, has always been about fun. First as a player, then as a coach, and now as an official. I do realize that as one of only a few paid participants on the basketball court, that I must take the game, and it is a game, more seriously than the players, and I do, but officiating is still fun for me. When my local officiating colleagues get together for a board meeting, or for some adult beverages after our games, or even if it's just for a few minutes before, after, or between games, we have fun. We tell jokes, we yank each other's chains, insult each other in fun, etc. I feel the same sense of kinship with all of the veteran posters on this Forum. I accept all of you, warts, and all, and hopefully you can accept me, warts, lots of warts, and all. And I've always tried to be polite, and when I've screwed up, and, for some reason, have been impolite, I readily apologize. Through a series of unfortunate circumstances, my life changed, for the worst, about ten years ago. An encouraged career change (luckily I got a golden parachute), a divorce, financial problems related to the career change, the divorce, and the stock market recession. I developed some serious medical problems, and my daughter developed a serous, possibly fatal disease. I became clinically depressed, and had suicidal thoughts. What saved my life? What kept me going? My three adult children, two with spouses. The Catholic Church, and my faith in Jesus Christ. A great doctor who prescribed lots of medication for me. And basketball officiating. Yes that right, basketball officiating has helped to save my life. It's been a long road, but I'm no longer clinically depressed, and I'm no longer suicidal. I still have problems with obsessive compulsive disorder, and anxiety, so I will have to be on the medication for the rest of my life, but that's a small price to pay, and I'm a lot healthier, both mentally, and physically, now than I was several years ago. Try to separate the silly stuff from the serious stuff that I post. I'm a thirty-two year veteran official, who has, over the years, worked games on every level, recreation, travel, AAU, middle school, freshman, junior varsity, varsity, boys, girls, men. I've served on my local board's training committees, both of them, rules, and mechanics. I am a retired middle school science teacher, honored as my school's teacher of the year, and as a finalist for the Connecticut science teacher of the year. I've got a lot to offer this Forum. I know the game of basketball, how to play it, how to coach it (twenty-five years coaching middle school basketball), and how to officiate it. I know rules, and mechanics, and, most importantly I know how to teach others how to be a good basketball official. I hope that I serve, and can continue to serve, as a valuable, contributing, member of the Forum. I live, alone (two of my three adult children live out of state, and I have no other family), with my cat, and two chickens (pretty pathetic, huh?), and, although I do have a few hobbies (gardening, raising chickens, kayaking, astronomical photography, officiating basketball) to keep me busy, posting on the Forum is one of the highlights of my day. Please don't take this away from me. Yes I can tone it down, but I only, and always, have good intentions. Quote:
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Quote, Unquote ...
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I decided to move this stuff over to its own thread. I'm leaving it in the basketball forum, though, instead of moving it to the General or Feedback forums. It seems specific to this section.
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I am still a relative newbie, both in officiating and on this forum.
I would like to stick up for BillyMac, who made me feel welcome when I came to this forum four years ago. Maybe I have a higher tolerance for bad jokes, maybe because I understand that life can throw us a few curves and sometimes we need to be silly, but he is definitely not offensive or off-putting to me. Let's be a little forgiving and generous I say. |
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The majority of the time, your off topic remark, joke, "funny" pic, etc. is the FIRST such post in a topic. Many times it completely derails the topic of discussion or ends the discussion. That's the real issue I have with such posts. For years, I've complained about jokes and off topic crap that derails good discussion. I started the notorious "Moderators" thread in September 2008. A couple of people didn't speak to me much after that and basically I stopped visiting the site. Even now, I don't visit more than once or twice a week, perhaps a little more during the season. I'm sure that makes some people happy. But for me, the fact that the OT posts derail good discussions is why I don't visit like I used to. Billy Mac, I'm sure you're a good guy and a great official but your off topic posts annoy the hell out of me. I probably miss out on some good stuff you post but I can sort through the other stuff to find it. No offense meant to you, that's just how I see it. Just my 2 cents. |
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Tidbits ...
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That said, I'm sure all of us have personality / posting issues that annoy others. I stand by my "posting rules" post made many years ago here (althogh I forget the specifics): 1) No more than 1 post per thread per person every x hours 2) Auto close a thread after x posts (if it hasn't been resolved by then it wont be) etc. |
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In prior years, we'd preach to our newbies that there are excellent resources out there above and beyond the books provided to them. We caution them to choose carefully, but historically encouraged them to visit this site for solid answers.
We aren't doing that any more as the feedback from the class is less than complimentary. Some examples are.... Useless after 5-7 posts on a particular subject If I wanted a warm-up act at the Funny Bone, I'd go to the Funny Bone My teen-aged daughters act better than this Moderators employ the old "do as I say, not as I do" method If I wanted to go to a pissing match, I'd find a campfire...... ...amongst others.... Sad to see this going the way of McGruff's and the FED forums. |
I'll add a few thoughts here:
We always seem to be working to find the right balance. Some perceive us as too lax, others as too heavy handed. Sounds pretty similar to working a game, doesn't it? There are a lot of OT posts that get removed as it is but clearly it is not enough. We really are trying as a group of moderators to keep things running smoothly here. We are constantly discussing this forum and how to best keep it running. Thank you for sharing your feelings. I certainly don't like reading that we have long time members leaving and reluctant to return. |
I have to agree with many of the comments I've seen. Topics used to be more about officiating. "In my little corner of..." wasn't funny to me the first time and it was pretty annoying the 3,000th time.
Having said all of that, I can appreciate it when someone takes all the punches that life has to offer and fights back. I pray that you continue on the path to emotional and physical health. I would suggest you leverage the internet and find other forums that fit some of your specific needs. That way this forum will be a part of your day along with other forums. |
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Let us not be overly dramatic. This place is nothing like those places. This place actually has moderators. And we can dispute over a decision or two that the moderators make, but they are active. Those places you could not figure out half the time who was watching and the kinds of disputes were not anywhere near what is going on here now. Peace |
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To me none of this is a big issue though. |
It all boils down to what are the priorities of this forum? This is the best place I've found to gain more knowledge about officiating basketball. While I might not agree with some of the more opinionated posters, they always make me think about situations and points of view I wouldn't naturally think about. It always helps me to be a better official. I don't post much because I often have nothing to add that would benefit anyone else and I loathe "+1" responses because I am pretty sure no one else cares if I agree with what someone else says or not. But when you have longtime and well respected members like Bob Jenkins, JRutledge, and BktBallRef, among several others complaining about someone who very rarely adds anything thought provoking to officiating discussions, then you, as moderators, have to decide what's more important for this forum. Keep this place the best place for those of us who really want to get better and learn and challenge ourselves.
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I don't mind billy mac's posts. I think everybody here takes officiating pretty seriously. Sometimes I think perhaps too seriously. For almost everybody here, officiating basketball is an avocation, not their full time job. I don't see any problem having some levity in the discussions. If I am not in the mood for his goofiness, I just skip his posts and any that are responses to them. It isn't that hard. Additionally, it seems to me that his long post in this thread was sincere and that his participation in this forum goes beyond just thinking about basketball and has helped him get through some difficult times. Billy, my prayers are with you and I hope you continue to do well. For the rest of you, I say lighten up Francis!
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Good grief, we're supposed to be able to focus and cut through various guff for 48, 40, 32, 28 or however many minutes and yet we can't simply just "change the channel" or hit the "skip" button when needed? And it's not as if Billy doesn't ever bring worthwhile discussion to the forum. That's painting with far too broad a brush. (And this is posted regardless of the guy's personal circumstances.) Lighten up, indeed. |
Billy's posts are always welcome here. I also ignore most of them.
It's no big deal to skip, read over or ignore posts. It's not hard to find the posts that advance knowledge of officiating. There are many posters on this Forum that, in my view, add noting to the discussion...any discussion. So what. They are free to pad their posting count. If there are "dangers" that this Forum is going down a path of increasing irrelevancy, it has noting to do with Billy. I try to limit my posts to facts, plays, mechanics, etc. I rarely offer opinions. I don't judge others, no matter the level or sex they work. I don't need the "me too" post. But that's me. Others like to be seen, be heard and let it be known they have an opinion. That's part of the Forum too. This Forum would benefit from more voices, not less. It would benefit from more respect and understanding of each other, not less. It would benefit from an understanding that because "you" do something a certain way in your state, your city, your association, doesn't mean I do or that I can. Billy's not the problem here. |
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All things in moderation...
I find most of BillyMac's posts amusing. He has posted a couple lists which will make me a better official.
I read the forum to become a better official. As long as the majority of the posts are serious, I don't mind a few jokes mixed in. It is a little disappointing to open a thread with new pages of comments and then to read those comments and not read anything that is serious |
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I've had agreements and disagreements with many different posters on this board and learned something from each experience. If this forum has helped and continues to help Billy Mac in his LIFE, then that is wonderful and far more important than the time it takes me to scan a few of his silly pics or joke posts. While he is known to stray from the topic, he is never mean or rude to others and I will never put him on my ignore list. |
Always Listen To bob ...
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Who You Gonna Call ??? BktBallRef ???
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The Land Of Steady Habits ...
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Note: I have a tremendous amount of respect for those Forum members who use their real names. Unfortunately, I usually do what I'm told to do by my local board and can't post under my real name. I'm not hiding behind my pseudonym, but it does seem somewhat cowardly. You may not believe me, but I would post the same thing if I were posting under my real name. |
The Law Of Levers ...
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Note: My spell check always changes BadNewsRef into Badnesses, so if I ever quote you as Badnesses, I'm not trying to be funny. |
Anyone else remember the squirrel image that would pop up every now and then??? Ahhhhh, those were the days.
Needs to be some room for fun and games on here, without going to far into ridiculousness. Seems to me that the moderators are doing a fairly good job of, well, moderating things around here. If something is annoying to you and the mods don't jump on it? Don't read it. And as someone else posted...there are a lot more annoying things to me than the jokes and pics one person posts. There are several regulars on here who 1) flat out lie about other posters, or 2) take their points into the realm of assininity by refusing to back down from their stand even when it is refuted by rule, case, interp, etc...and instead going to the weary "in my area" argument. C'est la vie. |
With Apologies To Gomez Addams ...
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Not that I have a vote, per se, but I'm completely fine with the way things are currently running.
And I think imposing a limit on how many times one could post on a thread in an hour would be detrimental, and probably more annoying than having to wait 30 seconds between searches. When there's a good discussion, and I have input/insight/opinions/perspective I'd like to share, I want to be able to do so immediately if I so choose after seeing the reply email pop up in my inbox. |
Those Weren't The Days (Apologies To Mary Hopkin) ...
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What I've said is: I object to off topic posts, lame jokes, pics, etc. that DERAIL a good discussion. I object when a newbie asked a question but gets such posts instead. I object to such posts hijacking threads. I object to such posts resulting in a second conversation within a thread. This same basic discussion occurred in the 2008 thread. It would seem we have the same issues now as then. Promises made but with time, people revert to who they are. For example BillyMac, you posted: "In my case, I determined that my actions were unwelcome, and that I was not a good citizen of the community, with some input from several Forum members, including some moderators. Over the past several weeks, the posts criticizing my image posting seemed to get more serious, and less good natured. I decided that I did not want to be viewed as an obnoxious Forum member, so I made my own decision to only post infrequent, on topic images. I thank those that advised me to tone it down." I wonder how long that lasted? Shrug. I don't know, but I do know I have no desire for you to leave or to be 100% serious. But I don't think asking for 90% serious is too much. :) Here's a link to that thread for anyone who would like to read it. Meanwhile, I've said my piece. Gotta prepare for a Sunday football clinic. Thanks to Smitty, Bob and Camron for the supportive comments. Later! http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...oderators.html |
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Google Dispelling the Myth Tony Haire and you'll find them. They've been published on several different sites. |
One Picture Is Worth ...
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Over The Back ...
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For what it's worth...
I usually take a break from the forum during my off season (summer). But, it would be nice for things to stay on topic. Although I do understand that it may be difficult during the off season since we don't have many plays and you can only hash out the new rules so much. I do admit that I like to have a little fun and go off topic sometimes but there has to be a line somewhere.
Either way, it's good to be back and gearing up for another season. |
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It's The Meds, I Blame The Meds ...
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Are We Playing Duck, Duck, Goose ???
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I've thought about running for our local executive board, but if elected, I would have to move through the chairs and, in several years, would eventually become president. Not for me. No way do I want to sit in front of 325 officials, with microphone, with everybody looking at me. We recently added an elected position to our executive committee, an at-large representative, who serves for two years and then ends his term. I may be interested in this position. |
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This Time It's Not Confuscius ...
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But not everyone. There is, at least, one member who disagrees: "Lame jokes have a place in a forum. They give a forum a sort of personality." Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) Warning: Please do not click on the link, below, unless you want to view an on topic, but not basketball related, video. Old timers may enjoy it, younguns may learn something, most will certainly hate it. Being just a little younger than Mick, I'm going to guess that he would like it, but I never had the pleasure, or honor, to know Mick in person, so I'm probably wrong. If you choose to open the link, and you find it distasteful, offensive, or worse, a waste of time, then simply close the video and it will magically go away, probably going somewhere into cyberspace. If you have dial-up internet access, or pay for your internet access by the minute, then you may not want to open the link. To those members who are more curious than a cat, well, deal with it, but I do promise that the video, probably, won't kill you (unless your modem, or computer, gets struck by lightning while you're viewing the video, but that's an act of God, and it wouldn't be my fault). Please note that I chose to post the link rather than to embed the link. The link takes up less space on your tiny computer monitors, and probably takes up less bandwidth, but I'm not sure about that. http://youtu.be/pHn2DVdS-rQ |
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If there is a single job that is more thankless than officiating I would say that it is being a moderator on a forum dedicated to sports officials! For the most part I would say that the mods have done a good job of figuring out how to handle the different issues that pop up on the forums. I started this board in 1999 (pause for h&#y s#&t moment) for fun and because I loved officiating—and that's the spirit in which I would like it to continue. I don't want it to be a no fun zone where everything is super studious, technical, and boring. I also don't want it to be a bunch of randomness and funny pictures of cats. :) Just like in officiating, there is a balance. Also, there are different styles amongst members—and some people are here for different reasons. Just like on the court there is the young official trying to move up, the guy with 4 kids just trying to make some extra cash, and the old veteran who knows he is close to (or maybe even past) retirement age, but is hanging on for the camaraderie. There is room for everybody. But, just like on the court, there isn't room for personal attacks and discussions that completely detract from what we are trying to accomplish here: Get better, make friends, and have fun in the process. You miss calls. The mods will miss posts. One poster will get away with something that another doesn't. Thems the breaks. Be nice. Be civil. And if you really get riled up about something just remember that you are arguing on the internet and that's like… well, it's arguing on the internet. If something is bothering you, PM the mods. If you think it's a bigger problem than they can handle, email me. The mods have a group where they communicate and I keep up with them on any issues that come up. So, for all of the faults you may find with them, I assure you that they are committed and trying to do the best job they can—for no pay and little thanks! Hope everyone is having a great off-season!! |
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