Heat v. Pacers: Game 4
 

The two main plays that are probably going to be discussed by the media:

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Great screen call. The travel call at NCAA and NF level is clearly a travel, but it appears that is not the case under NBA rules.

APG, can you quote the rule please to help with the discussion?

Also there is a call when LBJ got his 5th foul where he jumped up and contacted the shooter. I would like to see it again. Sorry, I do not have the exact time this took place. Somewhere under 5 minutes I believe in the 4th quarter.

Peace

Here is the pertinent part in the NBA rule book:

Rule 10, Section XIII

b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step.

The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.

The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously

So in the play, Wade completes his dribble with his right foot on the floor. The first step occurs AFTER gaining control of the ball, so his first step occurs when he steps back with his left foot. His second step occurs when he steps back with his right foot.

LeBron James' fourth foul:

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Like the screen call.
Don't like the Wade travel or PF on James.

One discussion.......
 

Can't be a foul -- he blocked the shot. ;)

I like the illegal screen call... he gave 'em a knee and knocked him off his RSBQ.

The travel call is a tough one because I've seen NBA (and even NCAA) players get away with MUCH worse than that before. By rule, its the correct call though.

The verticality foul on LBJ I believe is an incorrect call. He jumped straight up and the offensive player bumped him. LBJ didn't do anything wrong on that play, IMO.

He looked vertical, shot blocked or not. I did not like that call. LBJ had a point.

Peace

Obivously at any level below the NBA these are great calls all the time. I think these aren't incorrect calls in the NBA but tough calls there.

The screen is illegal but in terms of consistency and advantage/disadvantage there are some areas that seem fuzzy to me. If that screen is illegal then over the course of the NBA season and playoffs there are dozens and dozens of fouls on screens being missed. The contact also occurs as the defender guesses wrong on the dribble move by Wade. Ie. He was getting blown by whether the screen was legal or not because even if he isn't knocked down he's still on the wrong side of Lebron. I would say this is 50/50 NBA call, almost 100% at any other level.

I tend to feel the same way about the travel. I know there are a couple of travels there in any other rule set. In the NBA its close a couple of times. If this is called a travel all the time I've got no problem with it, the difficulty occurs if this is a rare or isolated incident. Probably the correct call but a tough call at this level in this situation.

The screen call was so confusing as far as I'm concerned. Most screens in the NBA look like lead blocks and pseudo wrestling moves. I can't figure out what is called when and why in the NBA in regards to screens.

I might have changed my mind.
 

It was pointed out to me by a FB friend that also used to come here, that this might be an RA situation. LBJ's right foot appears to be on the RA circle and if that is the case, that is probably why it was a foul. I am pretty sure that it the same at the NCAA level. Otherwise he was totally vertical and other than the RA this would be nothing from my point of view without the RA positioning.

Peace

This is the only reason I thought play #3 could've been a foul. That being said, establishing LGP in the RA doesn't prevent someone from playing defense and Crawford didn't make any motion to the RA, it appears he just called the body contact.

The illegal screen was a good call but I feel the same was as others who've responded: You see plays worse than that in the NBA - and NCAA, to be honest - that never get called so it just didn't feel right. Same thing with the travel.

Maybe APG can clarify this, but I am not so sure that is the mechanic at the NBA level the same way it is at the NCAA level. I could be wrong, but I would like to know for sure. I know I do not see the NBA officials pointing like they do at the NCAA level requires us to do.

I believe that LBJ was called for an illegal screen in that game on his second foul. And I have several examples of illegal screens in the NBA. So to say that is not ever called is not quite accurate. It is not called very technically for sure, but it is called when there is clearer displacement. And this play the player was tripped and could not cleanly get around LBJ. That is why I loved the call and the way I make these calls.

Peace

Video Request
 

I didn't see the game. Was there a play where David West hammered D-Wade? Can we get video on that?

I think you might be talking about a play where Wade was hit in the back of the head while a blocked shot attempt was made from behind. I would like to see that play again too. The commentators (not a good judge of anything) wanted it to be called a FF1. But then again this is Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr we are talking about. ;)

Peace

Also, how about the blown shot clock violation call that took away a basket from Indiana? Ball clearly hit the rim. Not sure how all 3 of them missed that. Any video of that play available.

As far as the fouls called on James, would we be having this conversation on this thread if James had been the shooter or the player being screened and the fouls had been called against Young, Stephenson, or George???

I like the screen call, but I haven't seen any of their no-calls for this game.

I couldn't see the travel, but the video is too jumpy here (connection issues, I think).

Really don't like the foul, but the RA may be the issue. I thought it only affected B/C calls, and didn't matter on shot block attempts. Then again, I really don't like the RA itself, so I haven't bothered to learn too much about it.

Good screen call. Need to see more of those called. It is unfailr to the defense to not call those.

Travel call correct, but it is a bit surprising to see it called. They let a lot more go.

LeBron's foul is correct by NBA standards relating to upward motion. In NFHS, that would have been a good defensive play.

Only correct under NFHS and NCAA rules...that was a legal play under NBA rules.

Like noted earlier, nothing illegal about this under NBA rules...if that play was called a travel all the time, that would be a problem (under that rule set).

For block/charge plays that involve the RA, the calling official will point to the RA if it's the sole reason for a blocking foul (as in the defender did get in the path and beat the player to the spot, but the RA applies and he's in it). Otherwise, if it would have been a blocking foul regardless, they won't point (e.g. defender gets to the spot late). Besides telling partners that they had a block for a particular reason (and thus can give help if needed), block/charge plays, in the final two minutes, that involve the RA are reviewable so they have to make the distinction.

Finally, I don't believe this is an RA play as the defender alights in a legitimate attempt to block the shot.

Well it appears once again you do not watch much NBA games if you have not seen travels called. And if you watch Heat games many are called on both Wade and LeBron.

Peace

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Again? Really? Enough of the attitude.

I never said there were no travels called...just that the threshold for calling one is usually a lot higher than this one.

Enough with what attitude? You mean enough with the attitude that everything is called properly at all levels and the NBA is somehow not real basketball? Oh I agree, it is annoying. ;)

Peace

You won't see a whistle blown regularly on this play because it was a legal play.

This play (Wade hit in the head) is just a regular shooting foul IMO and good catch on the GT call too.

Peace

I could go either way with this play. I'd trust whatever the officials called.

I do not totally disagree, I just think that the officials made a proper choice and called this a regular foul. Wade fell IMO more for him going hard to the basket and knowing he was going to be contested, more than the contact. And all head contact is not considered flagrant. It was not an elbow play or any more than a missed block attempt.

Peace

I guess that shows how much I watch and understand the NBA! Being from the St. Louis area (with no NBA team), I have no vested interest in that league. STL is known as a baseball town for obvious reasons... ;)

You're not making any sense. Can you translate?

Not according to the NBA website:

NBA.com - NBA’s Misunderstood Rules

If a player has one foot on the floor or lands with one foot first to the floor, he may only pivot with that foot. Once that foot is lifted from the floor to shoot or pass it may not return until the ball is released. If a player jumps off one foot on the count of one he may land with both feet simultaneously for count two.

He caught the dribble with one foot on the floor in front of the 3-point line. He stepped back with the other foot and then back for another step with the first foot.

That, according to the NBA rule, is indeed a travel.

The pivot foot is the left foot on this play. He caught the ball with the right foot on the floor...step one is the one made by the left foot as it happened after he gained control of the ball. He then stepped with the right back. This is the second step and made the left foot the pivot foot.

Another thing, that website is old...it uses old language that the rule book does not use anymore. The rule I quoted is from the current rule book. What you've quoted is referencing language from 2008 I believe (and even then, I don't believe this would have been a violation back then either).

Here is Joe Borgia, NBA Vice President of Referee Operations, on Making the Call with Joe Borgia. He explains it quite well...

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What About Bob Pettit ???
 

What about the Hawks? Wait? I'm being told ... what? Where? Atlanta? Never mind.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.46701...31101&pid=15.1

Game 4 Update......
 

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I thought the illegal screen on LBJ was right.

I don't know the NBA rule set, but for NFHS I believe it is a travel.

On the verticality play, I thought it was a good call.

Did anyone notice that the old trail made that call on the illegal screen, almost from half court? Crawford was right in front of the call and it was inside the arc. He was C at the time, transitioning to trail (the lead was across the lane as the whistle was blown) and was right in front of the play.

I just thought that coverage was rather odd considering Crawford was right in front of the matchups and gave the call up yet the trail was the one who made that call from that far back.

That website is the NBA's own website. How is anyone supposed to know that a currently published description of the rule by the NBA is not current? I could see it being out-of-date if it was a 3rd party or if it was just changed, but 5 years!

Crawford is focused on the dribbler and the player sliding over to defend the dribbler. Especially because the dribbler "didn't use the screen", it's a great call for the off-ball official to get.

There is nothing weird or unusual about that call at all. For one when 3 players come together on the perimeter, the official with secondary coverage needs to come and help. And the contact took place at the top of the circle area and LBJ came from the other side of the court to the ball. Great call by the T. If anything that play could blow up on Crawford and not know why a player is falling down.

I know I had a situation in camp where this kind of situation happened where I was "On ball" and a screen took place around the ball. I did not call a foul because I did not really see the entire play and when the evaluator commented on the play they talked about how "we" missed it. But mostly let me off the hook by saying, "You were on ball and needed help from your partner." In my experience as well this is a good get from another official because the player likely came from someone's primary to the ball to set a screen. I also know an former NBA official/current NBA evaluator in my area often talks about this kind of play and needed two officials to officiate the area in these situations.

Peace

Had a play like this in a college game this year. I was trail and had no idea where the screen came from and if it was legal. The Lead reached all the way up to the top of the free throw circle. I thanked him for it at halftime.

I find your surprise at this rather odd. If old trail can't call this, is there anything at all you would consider that position responsible for on a play like this one? Seems to me this is his call to make all the way.

Dunno...I will say that in the 2012-2013 NBA Officials Media Guide, their misunderstood rules section uses similar language to what you posted. So it's seems the NBA is just not being clear with what they mean.