ejection or T?
 

I'm reffed in a tournament tonight filled with players in there mid 20's and 30's. Most of them have college experence so it is a high quality game. A player drove to the basket and collided with the defender. I was the lead and called a block, basket went in so shooting one. Before the player got up, he slamed the ground with his hand and yelled "tearable", I give him a T. As im walking to the table another player on that team yells "F--- YOU!!!" to me. With out even thinking, I turn around and give him a T as well.

After the game, I had another official that was in the stands tell me that if he was in my position he would have given the seconds player a doube T and ejected him from the game.

Your thoughts?

Did the official in the stands give any additional information? Were there gestures or anything else in conjunction with the second player yelling?

Nothing that he said, so I don't think so

You gave two Ts in a competitive men's league....sounds about right to me.

HTBT but I think you should sleep well knowing you took care of business.

My thoughts? If you referee men's leagues, this scenario will probably be pretty typical. You would have had every right to toss the guy who said "F-you" for a flagrant. Totally up to you. Welcome to adult rec league basketball. You'll see a lot more of this. :eek:

Flagrant ...
 

No need for a double technical here. Just one flagrant technical will do. Also, if it's a game played under NFHS rules, it's a disqualification, not a true "ejection".

As several of our esteemed members would say, "Whack! Get out!"

I'm not putting up with that crap from anyone. Let the league deal with it.

I've been fortunate in my men's leagues so far. Of course, I've only signed up for the "B" and "C" Leagues, and stayed away from the "A's" as I've heard horror stories......cops, fights. Blech. :(

For some reason I cringed when the other official said "double T." First, even if you gave the same player 2 Ts, it's not a double T. Second, one flagrant T is fine to do the job. No need to shoot four free throws, just toss him with one T.

As for the T itself. I probably would have tossed him, but wouldn't lose sleep either way. Maybe he learned his lesson, if not, and he does it again, you can toss him next time.

I've got a T as well.

Men's rec league? For this I start with the flagrant T, and then will look at a downgrade to a regular T if the league has a good reputation, etc. (Context: two of the three men's rec leagues I work have been told to shape up by our referee's group.)

For me, rec league or no, the "F" gets him a generic T. The "you" upgrades it to a flagrant.

I'd eject him without much thought or fanfare. No way I'm taking that -- anywhere.

Agreed. And ANY official who doesn't toss a player that behaves like that is doing a disservice to anybody working games in that league in the future.

F--- You = Have a nice day to me.

For you newbies - this is why we call these games "wreck league". :D

It's Cathartic ...
 

No. Sometimes we need some fanfare. Too bad the NFHS doesn't give us the "heave ho" signal, like they have in baseball.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xWMvunX3zGk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Is the reverse true?
 

So, if someone says, "Have a nice day," do I say, "Hey!" :mad:

Have a nice day != F-- You

+1

For me, FU is the succinct superlative of the cuss-out, reserved for those you wished dead. Easy flagrant.

One additional thought from here in NJ: Do you really want to give that guy a chance to say that to you twice in the same game? Some things don't deserve a second chance.

Yelling, F-Bomb, "you" on the end of it....


Oh yeah...he's done for the evening.

Just out of curiosity: you all say you are not putting up with this in a rec league environment, so does that mean this is a regular T in scholastic games for most of you?

Honestly ... hell no. "F U" directed at me is going to be an ejection, pretty much on any day in any setting.

I would say without the curse words, I might have taken care of that situation long before it got to that point. It is just a guess, but that was likely not the first incident of behavior that would border on disrespect. I have a shorter leash with any non-school sanctioned game.

Then again I would not work a Men's league game for these kinds of reasons. Even AAU is starting to get me to completely avoid those situations too.

Peace

:confused:

Double :confused:

Yep, +1

That hasn't stopped me from using it. Official or not, it leaves no doubt as to what just happened.

An F--- you gets a ticket punched in my not so little corner of Southeast Texas.

Ha its programming speak. "!=" means not equal to. So what I am saying is that "x equals y" but "y doesn't equal x".

And sometimes equals would be "==" not just "=".

Agreed, AAU and even some youth rec leagues are having uniformed cops show up just for these situations. I helped out the local 15-under league, played now after all high school play is done, and had to throw out a parent, AFTER said "adult" was earlier warned and approached by game administrator and man with badge:( Don't know what this is coming to. The better officials do not want to work these games. It is a good training ground for the younger officials, provided they are working with or under proper supervision. However, some of the behavior seen could easily deter a promising young trainee and have him thinking: "screw this"

I'm beginning to rethink wanting to ref AAU this summer, hmm...

You should be ok if you feel it is a strong and well run AAU tourney or program, with plenty of administrative supervision and backing of officials. Not sure how you know this going in. A lot of trouble at these things also comes from using untrained volunteers, parents, even players to work the table, where a number of screwups (scoring/timing mistakes, and erroneous # fouls are the most common) can effect a games outcome and in the elimination bracket variety, this can really get people fired up. Guys in stripes take the heat for a lot of this when it is out of their control.

Let me say this about that...
 

In my years of experience, the biggest horror shows occur during AAU tournaments. Even when there is strong organization AND security, there always seems to be incidents. I've come to the point where I've decided it's just not worth the money or additional game experience. You can say it will definitely test your game management skills, but I've even seen incidents that actually threaten officials physically.

Maybe it's an unfair generalization on my part, but AAU ball has come to equal garbage in my book. Not so much for the talent or level of skill/play, but all the nonsense that takes place outside the lines.

I think this really depends. We don't have AAU here, but we have a similar organization. Some refs won't work it, I will, but I also don't put up with much from coaches. I'll talk to them and remind them of the expectations. It's worked well for me. The ones who recognize me have been doing it long enough that it's not an issue, though.

My experience generally involves national tournaments that include mostly out of town teams. Virutally NONE of the coaches are local and thus have zero relationships with the officials...and the behavior shows it.

I agree, and the same goes for fans. I had an incident with a team (whose players I had seen year and and year out for several years) and they had a new coach. He starts jawing and I ask him to watch his tone and keep the chatter to basketball. Well I guess he felt his manliness was being challenged so nevertheless he gets T #1. 5 seconds later I'm giving him T #2. As soon as I give the second T a mom from the stands who I recognize because her girls have played for many years yells out, "I warned you before the game this ref ain't gonna put up with your crap."

I was smiling ear to ear on the inside.

Yep, and the coaches who recognize me from HS (and even MS) season ball are better behaved (for at least two reasons), with the standard exceptions that also apply to in-season ball. Some parents are starting to recognize me as well (the ones with older kids in HS ball and younger ones in youth ball).

Thank you.

Please Excuse BillyMac, Signed, BillyMac's Mother ...
 

I didn't realize that we would be studying math on the Official Forum. Will this be on the exam?

Is Anything In Texas Little ???
 

So? The good people that live in the southeastern corner of Texas actually call it Southeast Texas? It's not called Houstonland? Interesting. Very interesting.

Billy:

Thanks for this video. It has been around for a couple of years now and it never fails to bring a smile to my face.

MTD, Sr.

Go Get 'Em Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. ...
 

Having a moderator say to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., "You Are Gone", after one of his lengthy posts, as he goes down memory lane, now, that would bring a smile to my face.

Well there's Houston, which covers a pretty large swath of area and then there's Southeast Texas which includes areas outside of Houston.