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-   -   Louisville-California (W) block charge clip (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94746-louisville-california-w-block-charge-clip.html)

JetMetFan Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:31am
Louisville-California (W) block charge clip
 
Just wanted some thoughts on the call from the general population...



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blindzebra Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:39am
Block 13/15(?) slides over after she is in the air.

Also like how she tries to kick her when she was on the floor.

IUgrad92 Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:42am
Dribbler a tad out of control and I think goes through the defender. I would, however, have a T on Red 13 for the foot action.....

JeffM Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09am
Block and a T on #13
 
I see a block on 13 (lateral movement after shooter was airborne) followed by a T on 13.

There seems to be a pattern of poor sportsmanship from the Louisville players. The Director of Officials should incentivize tonight's crew to take care of business before it gets out of hand.:D

Judtech Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM (Post 889958)
I see a block on 13 (lateral movement after shooter was airborne) followed by a T on 13.

There seems to be a pattern of poor sportsmanship from the Louisville players. The Director of Officials should incentivize tonight's crew to take care of business before it gets out of hand.:D
Well Cancun is out.....

Raymond Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:50am
I got a PC followed by a T.

Judtech Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:00pm
In the first half, can't recall the time, a Cal player shoots a 3 and ends up tangled on the UL bench. On her way out a UL player tries to kick her.
Who woulda thought Geno's kids would be the better behaved?

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:19pm
I have a travel. Not sure where but I have travel. ;)

Peace

Judtech Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889990)
I have a travel. Not sure where but I have travel. ;)

Peace
I was thinking 3 seconds....:cool:

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 889993)
I was thinking 3 seconds....:cool:
That too. But seriously many officials would have called a travel on this play in my experience. I know players that will not even try a jump stop because they are called for a travel for a legal move.

Peace

Camron Rust Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:41pm
Charge. At the time the shooter left the floor, the defender was in her path. The defender may have still been moving but the shooter was already cutoff.

pizanno Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:32am
celebratory action?
 
I'm not convinced the kicking action is directed towards the player. The second replay angle shows #13 pound the floor with right fist at same time her leg straightens/kicks. She's also looking in a direction away from offensive player during and after the kick.

Celebratory actions can sometimes lead to incidental or unintended contact. Just ask Danny Crawford :D

Adam Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno (Post 890295)
I'm not convinced the kicking action is directed towards the player. The second replay angle shows #13 pound the floor with right fist at same time her leg straightens/kicks. She's also looking in a direction away from offensive player during and after the kick.

Celebratory actions can sometimes lead to incidental or unintended contact. Just ask Danny Crawford :D
I disagree. Love the PC call, but this knee kick wasn't celebratory. Whistle that, and it stops.

Raymond Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno (Post 890295)
I'm not convinced the kicking action is directed towards the player. The second replay angle shows #13 pound the floor with right fist at same time her leg straightens/kicks. She's also looking in a direction away from offensive player during and after the kick.

Celebratory actions can sometimes lead to incidental or unintended contact. Just ask Danny Crawford :D
After seeing the conduct of Louisville players vs. Baylor and Cal they get ZERO benefit of the doubt from me.

Adam Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by badnewsref (Post 890313)
after seeing the conduct of louisville players vs. Baylor and cal they get zero benefit of the doubt from me.
+1

pizanno Wed Apr 10, 2013 02:15pm
Ok, I can accept being in the minority opinion on the T...after a multiple defender, dual area, RA vicinity, pass-crash play like this, I know I wouldn't have the awareness to say with certainty what her intent was.

But, when the Louisville or CAL coach asks what she did to earn the T, you say what?

"In my opinion she intended to kick her"?

Then CAL coach asks, isn't that 'fighting' by rule?

Now what?

Raymond Wed Apr 10, 2013 04:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno (Post 890351)
Ok, I can accept being in the minority opinion on the T...after a multiple defender, dual area, RA vicinity, pass-crash play like this, I know I wouldn't have the awareness to say with certainty what her intent was.

But, when the Louisville or CAL coach asks what she did to earn the T, you say what?

"In my opinion she intended to kick her"?

Then CAL coach asks, isn't that 'fighting' by rule?

Now what?
"If she would have connected or a skirmish ensued we would get her for fighting, but since neither happened we're only getting her for an unsporting T"

Adam Wed Apr 10, 2013 04:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 890372)
"If she would have connected or a skirmish ensued we would get her for fighting, but since neither happened we're only getting her for an unsporting T"
yep, pretty simple, actually, since most coaches aren't going to ask for that. The ones that do know the answer ahead of time anyway, they're just trying to see what they can get away with.

pizanno Wed Apr 10, 2013 04:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 890372)
"If she would have connected or a skirmish ensued we would get her for fighting..."
4-26 Art. 2. A fight is a confrontation involving one or more players, coaches or other team personnel wherein (but not limited to) a fist, hand, arm, foot, knee or leg is used to combatively strike the other individual.

Art. 3. When during a confrontation, an individual attempts to strike another individual with any of the actions defined in Art. 2, whether there is contact is irrelevant. The perpetrator shall be deemed to have been involved in a fight.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 890372)
"...but since neither happened we're only getting her for an unsporting T"
This is the part I especially like. I don't think we consider the option of unsporting T (whether there was contact or not) often enough. Not all contact is a foul, even during deal ball.

rockyroad Wed Apr 10, 2013 05:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno (Post 890386)
4-26 Art. 2. A fight is a confrontation involving one or more players, coaches or other team personnel wherein (but not limited to) a fist, hand, arm, foot, knee or leg is used to combatively strike the other individual.

Art. 3. When during a confrontation, an individual attempts to strike another individual with any of the actions defined in Art. 2, whether there is contact is irrelevant. The perpetrator shall be deemed to have been involved in a fight.





This is the part I especially like. I don't think we consider the option of unsporting T (whether there was contact or not) often enough. Not all contact is a foul, even during deal ball.
There really isn't a confrontation here. Had that kick landed, there probably would have been a confrontation, and then the fighting stuff would kick in. In this case - as others have said - we should have had a PC followed by a T.

Camron Rust Wed Apr 10, 2013 07:20pm
It is sort of like the difference between shoving and punching. They're done with very different levels of intensity even if they're with the same part of the body.

maroonx Wed Apr 10, 2013 09:20pm
She did not slide over when dribbler was in the air. Thats clear. Easy call. Charge it


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