Louisville-Baylor PC & coach reaction clip
 

Finally!

This is the first of a few I intend to post. Unfortunately I have to head to bed so I picked out the one generating the most discussion.

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About time :D

Not a PC foul... trust your partner there.

+1. +1000 on the second part

If Mulkey doesn't deserve a T for that outburst, no one should ever get one. I couldn't believe she didn't get stuck.

But there's 2 bodies on the floor, got to have something.:eek:

Yes, but it should have been the right thing.

The two officials that had the best look didn't call a charge because it wasn't a charge. The T was running the other way and stopped to comeback for the call with the worst view of the 3. The L and C knew it and knew that call just changed the game unfairly. I bet they didn't want to double up on the wrong call by sticking the coach too making a bigger travesty of the situation. Perhaps the T knew it was a bad call too and decided to take their lumps rather than compound the situation.

I was being sarcastic.

L-Ville coach just got stuck for sitting on the scorers table. They had to get that. Even if the call was egregious. She can't act that way, two wrongs don't make a right.

I'd sat that's pretty much a textbook definition of unacceptable bench decorum.

In Mulkey's defense...it looks like a block or flop or no-call to me, but ya still can't lose it like that. I had to chuckle at the end of the clip, she had FOUR assistants standing around her trying to control her.

Could the C and L be thinking "my partner just screwed her, now I don't want to stick her on top of it"?

Oy. What a mess.

100% Agree. And if I was the C or L, I'd be thinking that exact thing.

Yea, I agree here.

Is that what he did? I was wondering, as the camera never showed it during the game.

I'm with you, though. I'm willing to let a coach vent quietly in a case like that, but stomping around like she did can't be allowed just because she thinks they made a bad call. She's an adult for crying out loud. That was a tantrum, and it continued into the press conference after the game.

I've asked this question elsewhere, I'll ask it here.

In what other profession can you act like a child and be excused because it was a stressful situation that didn't go your way?

I would probably not stick him for just sitting on the table, I would bet he said something also. I agree with you about letting her vent. Especially as the L and C passed.

I think all my supervisors would expect a T be assessed if a coach did that while or just after complaining about a call.

I would agree with that being their thought process. But you just compounded one mistake (charge) with another (no T).

Kim Mulkey interview with Jason Whitlock.

She doesn't regret saying it was to rough.

Not necessarily. Calling the T could be viewed as compounding the original error if the call was clearly wrong as the T would penalize the same team that just got screwed.

If I've just completely botched a call, I'm going to give a coach a LOT of room to vent. If it is my partner's call that is botched, I'm going to let them decide how much room they're going to give.

I agree, I've done it. I've even told the coach I made a bad call and they have 15 sec to let me have it (usually defuses it). But this case was so egregious you can't look past it. I may have needed to be clearer that I was speaking of this instance in particular.

Maybe the call was so bad, the partners felt the the T had to be the one to make the decision. And perhaps the T knew it was a bad call (a game changing call in that situation) and she made the judgment that she was going to take whatever came.

It was a pretty bad call. You may have a point.
It's her mess let her clean it up.

Im usually all for having your partner's back. But after that call, and at that point in the game, I am NOT sticking Mulkey there unless she crosses more lines than she already crossed.

Maybe not a popular opinion among many here but I just wouldnt have done it there.

I'm not going to factor in whether or not my partner missed a call when a coach is going nutso. Or the time left in the game. If they go nuts with 30 seconds left or because they thought a call was botched, they "decided the game" not me.

A technical foul is just another call. Coach behavior is a rule just like traveling. We make it so freakin' hard when we start justifying their behavior because we might have missed something. Expect respect. If you don't expect respect for yourself, do it for the next crew.

I don't think the call was so terrible that the coach's reaction should have been tolerated....the call was reasonable (other than coming from the T) even if a no-call would have been better....the Louisville player had established LGP...there was enough contact that the Baylor player also fell to the floor....two bodies were on the floor about six feet in front of the basket...the late whistle came when the Baylor player started driving to the void created by the "collision"...

She deserved a T and should have gotten one.

Certainly it was the T's mess, but as soon as Coach changes her attention to one of her partners it becomes their issue too.

If I am working a game and one of my partners decides to take that they are going to ignore a tantrum directed at them that is their choice, but once that non-sense is directed at the rest of the crew it is open season.

She fully expected to get T'd and when she didn't it gave her more ammunition for her post game comments. This is not the only tirade she has gone on. It seems to me that we had a discussion a few years ago about her going ballistic.

I would think it will be difficult to put anyone of these officials on a Baylor game in the near future, especially Barlow (T). How can she T her up for anything now that the horse is out of the barn, down the dirt road, and across the county line?

It may not be popular here, but I think you hit upon the exact thought process of the rest of that crew.

The C (who had a perfect view of the play) and the L saw the defender throw herself down and passed on the flop. The defender even kicked her knees out under the opponent probably causing her to go down too. If there is any call to be made, it would be a block.

At any other time in the game, it wouldn't be such a bad call. But at that time of the game, it was monumental. It could easily be argued that it cost Baylor the game.

The late whistle came when the T, way out of position, decided they had to have a call because of a bad understanding of "two bodies down". She didn't consider or trust that even both of her partners had a great view of the play.

+1.

This is the best summation of the entire mess that I've read.

BTW, one thing regarding the T on Walz (the Louisville HC). He'd been given a stop sign 4½ minutes into the game so it wasn't as though it was just pulled out of thin air. Not that giving him a T has any bearing on the lack of a T on Mulkey in this case. I just wanted to point it out so folks know Walz already had a warning when he got stuck.

Maybe it was the 16 three pointers they gave up.

I get that he had been given a warning, however some acts don't need, or deserve a warning, in my eyes her acts don't deserve one, but who knows I might not have given her one either. I would like to think I would.

Same here. I understand the concept of giving her a little rope here, and these three are better than I am, but I think they dropped the ball with the T. If I let a coach get stupid every time I thought my partner missed a call, or every time the coach thought I (or my partner) missed a call, I would have never called a coach technical foul. It's the only thing they vent about, for Pete's sake.

Why is it too much to ask coaches to act like adults under stress rather than teenagers who had their prom date stolen by a best friend?

I don't disagree with anything you said. I don't think the call was nearly as bad as many others we've seen over the last few days.

Of course, the call might have cost Baylor the game, but it hadn't cost Baylor the game yet. They're down one with about 17 seconds left and Louisville has the ball. The game is far from over at that point. Perhaps the Baylor coaching staff could have provided some words of wisdom to the Baylor players at that critical moment of the game...Instead, it appears that she chose to work the refs by throwing a tantrum rather than to coach her players....

I don't think it cost them the game, to be honest. They immediately stole the inbound pass once they pushed them into the corner. They got fouled, and made both free throws to take the lead. They then, immediately, played matador defense and had to commit a foul. That cost them the game.

I don't think they steal the pass if they don't have them boxed into that corner.

This just reinforces, "trust your partner(s)". This type of mix up I expect from new officials as they lack the experience and discipline to referee their primary. I had one guy I worked with this year that in the first quarter reached so far out and made 2 calls that IMO were incorrect. I addressed it with him and told him that make sure what he calls is what happened and don't guess.

Second quarter he does it again and calls a travel on a loose ball when all he could see was the players back, through the lane and about 4 players. Next time out I addressed it again. Quite frankly by now it was getting annoying because by chance each time this happened I ended up in front the irate coach.

The fourth time it happened and the coach started in on me I turned to him and told him to take up his complaint with the calling official, I had run out of excuses and reasons to give the coach.

This call reminded me of that situation. Bad angle, didn't see the whole play but for some reason or another a call was made. There have been plenty of times when I see things in my partners area and I wonder if I should have called it. Right there I know I shouldn't.

We have a saying locally for calling out of your primary...don't know if it's common everywhere: "If one reaches up and grabs ya by the ba11$, go and get it". Meaning if you think you're partner missed it and ya see it and it bothers you...grab it. I doubt this was the case here.

The official obviously thought that was the case here.

Peace

I don't think the official actually has....oh wait....

Not relevant....it was a 1 point game with 16 seconds left and the kick-out jumper was made. How they got to a 1 point game at that point is irrelevant. Perhaps they still steal the next inbounds anyway and go up 3. No one knows, but to wipe the go ahead basket with 16 seconds is usually the end of the game.

Believe me, I'm not trying to justify letting Mulkey off the hook. I just wanted to put Walz's T in its own context.

As to the Mulkey situation: I completely understand the feeling of "We screwed up X call so don't compound it by giving the offended coach a T." We've all been there. But...

*The NCAAW instructional video for this season has a "Sportsmanship" section, part of which deals with Coaches Behaving Badly.
*On January 29 we received a message from Debbie Williamson which included the following:

So what happens? We get a "What the Fu-Schnickens?" moment on national television...in the NCAA tournament...in a game involving the defending national champions.

If Mulkey was just in someone's ear maybe you let her vent and move on. The woman nearly undressed herself on the bench and that was before she left the coaching box. Someone has to T her up if only to save the crew. I think that sequence created some doubt in two subsequent situations:

*The kick on the inbounds following the PC. It really shouldn't have taken that long to deal with the clock. "Did white kick the inbound pass?" "Yes." "Okay, I'm going to have them reset the game clock to 16.7" "Okay." That's it. It doesn't take a group meeting.

*The foul on Louisville's last offensive play, which I'll post in the morning. I truly don't think the C could see it to call it but I'm thinking the L may have hesitated, in part, because of what happened at the other end in a continuation of the "Let's not screw this one up" theme.

Again, just me theorizing at 12:39 AM.

I think those asserting this was a bad call are protesting a bit too much. It wasn't a bad call. May not have been the best call for that particular situation, but a bad call requires a call for a rule infraction that didn't occur. Sorry, but the elements of a player control foul appear to have occurred here.

I've watched this video and the ESPN highlights about 20 times now. I still can't understand what made the Baylor player fall down.

Not The One Who Moved A Rubber Tree Plant ...
 

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, we refer to this as, "Ants, and elephants".

Are you kidding? The UL player flopped. The PC foul that was called was total garbage, especially in the context of other contact during the game.

What elements exist? The NCAA uses To and Through terminology to evaluate B/C plays, and for there to be a PC foul there needs to be one player going through another player's space. This clearly did not happen on this play.

So just so I am sure I understand you correctly here, it is your contention that the officials "cost" Baylor the game?

I recall that in the pre-season video they specifically said that it didn't need to be "through" to have a PC foul. Maybe I'm misremembering.

(and, to be clear, I am making no comment here on the call / play specifically)

I think upon feeling the contact with the defensive player she decided to pass back behind her and was off-balance when she came back down after twisting her body to make the pass.

I know I've made an incorrect call at the end of a game before that cost a team the win....ones that if I had made a different call, a different team would have won. It may have not been the only factor that led to that situation, but I was certainly a contributing factor.

So, this call was also contributing in that sense. It certainly wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor.

And, further, to take a score off the board with so little time left usually leaves insufficient time to recover. If the same thing happened with 3 minutes left, it wouldn't be such big deal. It is the timing of the situation that makes it so impactful.

Baylor was fouled and sent to the line after this call. The FTs took the lead, then Louisville was fouled on the next possession. Sorry, but they had a lot of chances, let alone Baylor coach was out coached most of the game and had to make a furious comeback to have a chance. Sorry, I do not agree with your assessment of this situation.

Peace

The preseason video said it doesn't just have to be squarely in the chest. If A1 tries to go around B1 and still hits him in the shoulder we should still have a PC.

Not buying it.

Have We all made a call towards the end of the game that we later wanted back? Sure. But to say that you cost them the game, or that the officials in this case cost Baylor the game, is total garbage.

There are so many things to go into a game...turnovers, missed gimme shots, bad shots that shouldn't have been taken, stupid fouls, missed free throws, etc., etc.

The crew on this game was not very good that night. But Baylor didn't exactly play very well, either. Louisville out hustled them and out coached them.

Men's or Women's? That might make a difference here.

Peace

Men's....but this play was a straight up flop.

I agree that this was a flop, but just saying things in the pre-season video is often different based on the gender we are discussing.

Peace

Here's what we (NCAAW) had in our preseason presentation in October:

That being said, I don't know if this block/charge rose to the level of enough contact for a PC foul.

Yep -- that's what I remember.

regardless of rules set or directives, it was not a PC foul

Then what the hell were they talking about? I agree you do not have to go through a player, but I still would like to see actual displacement. There was no displacement by the contact. If anyone was displaced it was the offensive player as they fell over the defender's leg.

Peace

What we were told on the Men's side also.

Meant to post that myself a while ago.

Someone probably mentioned to T after the game that she was third in the chain of command on the play. It came from C and he didn't move a muscle to make a call. It was going towards L and she didn't move a muscle either.