NCAA mechanics
 

Why are men's and women's NCAA mechanics so different? NFHS is the same for boys and girls...what's the deal?

NCAAM & NCAAW have different rules committees so each wants to handle things its own way. They even have different interpretations of the same play situations at times, some laid out in the case book, some not.

NFHS has one rulemaking body so everything comes from one source.

I can still remember our assignor coming in on our intial season meeting and distributing ONE set of rulesbooks instead of the traditional two sets - one for boys and one for girls. It seemed strange at the time. Girls basketball has always been awful but it was atrocious those first few years of full court basketball.

How Far We, as Women, Have Come!
 

Are you dating yourself with a veiled reference of when girls' basketball was played with six players per team, with two "rovers"?

Depending on the state, this isn't that long ago.

Wait, never mind. It's been at least 20 years now everywhere.

Exactly, except...
Some states still have separate governing organizations for girls sports. As such, they tend to use different adaptations.

Iowa, for example, up until just a few years ago, allowed the coaching box for girls but the boys' coaches could not use it. There were quite a few other adaptations in place for the girls long after they abandoned the half court game (such as when the arrow would switch on an AP throw in.)

It is more simple than that. The NCAA Women's side hitched their wagon to the NBA philosophy when the WNBA was created in the mid-90s. So the people that often worked WNBA games were people highly influential in the Women's side and convinced everyone to change their coverage areas and even signals. The Men's side as always tried to be a little different and most powers that be do not embrace NBA level or their style of play.

Peace

Women play basketball and there are different mechanics for the officials? Who knew and who cares!

Are the NCAAW more different from NCAAM in rules or mechanics? Why not consolidate the rules bases?

I understand the womens game is different, but is it so different it requires a whole different set of rules and accompanying mechanics?

They are not going to consolidate the genders because they do not want to. It is that simple. They do not care if the levels have different rules as you have different styles of play and execution. It is not like officials are going to be working both sides, so why change when you do not have to?

Peace

Why do they not want to?

Why not? If you standardize the rules and mechanics, and provided the checks are the same, wouldn't women's ball attract higher quality officials that would work both men's and women's?

The checks aren't the same. So now you would not only change the rules but also the pay scales. And people already complain about officials working too many days, now they can throw in a couple of women's or men's games to completely fill their schedules completely.

I hope you are saying this in jest. I really dont think the rules and mechanics are what is keeping people from not doing women's basketball. More likely is that many officials think women's basketball sucks and wouldnt try to work it if the pay was double what they paid for the men's games.


About 8 years or so ago hear, one of the biggest conferences in the Chicago suburbs (33 schools at the time), fired their assignment coordinator. One of the reasons the person who replaced him was hired was that he agreed to do both boys and girls assignments and told the athletic directors and coaches he would make the officials working boys varsity games work girls varsity games as well. He found out very quickly that he wasnt going to be able to keep this promise. Over 95% of the boys varsity officals told him he could keep their boys games if it meant they had to do girls games as well, they would just fill their schedules with games in other leagues. Needless to say, he had no choice but to give guys just boys games otherwise he would have been the assignment guy for 1 season when the boy's coaches saw that they wouldnt get any of the officials they wanted because the assignor was trying to make them work girls games.

I am sure some guys who did not get many men's assignments would work women's, if it were not for the fact that officiating the women's game is so much different. For a decent men's official who only gets 15 assignments because of his lack of seniority, I think he might work women's games to fill in his schedule if not for the rules/mechanics gap.

As someone who works under different codes for BV and GV (NFHS vs. NCAAW modified) it's not a case of "oh I can't get boys assignments so I'm going to work girls." I worked boys only and had a good schedule but just wanted more games so I started doing girls' ball. If you can call a game, you can call a game. Dealing with the rules differences is more a speed bump than a road block.

In college it's as much a matter of assignors/supervisors don't want you doing both.

The womens game is much more different than just some mechanics and rule differences. The philosophy is much different...as is the mindset of the officials and how the power that be want the game called...IMO

You're correct. The big thing the powers that be emphasize with us is freedom of movement. Since - save for one person - the game isn't played above the rim in NCAAW, their game suffers considerably if illegal screens aren't dealt with. The other part of the equation is women react differently to contact than men do, especially at the lower levels. Men expect some level of contact, women get ticked off a lot faster when they think the contact is remotely close to the line.

I hope that your other 138 posts on the board contribute as much as this one did! :)

No, but it might be something that prevents officials from working both. Used to be that officials might start in women's basketball and some later move over to men's basketball. Joe DeRosa who worked in the NBA for many years (and now works men's D1) started that way.

Now it is completely segmented — you either work women's or men's, never both. And crossing over isn't very common either.

And with all due respect to the other commentators in the thread, the correct answer is a single word: COACHES

Probably not, but thanks for taking the time to look up my number of posts.:rolleyes:

Not a chance. There are plenty of officials out there doing small college basketball and hs ball that have to switch back and forth on rules and mechanics. Simple fact is that men's and women's game are played on completely different physical level which leads to different expectations from the coaches, assignors, and players about what calls need to be made in each game. An official might be able to go back and forth on this, but they will never get as good at their judgement calls for either game by doing so.

Where are the people ranting about these comments? I was told there are people that work both all the time. ;)

Peace

Not at the college level. I've never seen anyone suggest that's the case. High school? That's another can of worms altogether.

There have been people here that claimed this has happen at the college level. Never seen any evidence that proves this, but I have heard this a few times as if it was a "norm."

Certainly at the HS level this takes place, it almost has to on many levels. But I have heard people suggest it happens in college, even after the NCAAW side took a turn to NBA style mechanics and rules.

Peace

Maybe at lower levels (DIII, NAIA, JUCO), but even then I would be surprised to see full schedules.

Someone claimed it happened at the D1 level on this very site. ;)

That being said there was an assignor in my area that assigned D3 in a conference for both genders and tried to assign officials to both. That did not go over well and later that supervisor was released from both. And it certainly does not happen in my area at those levels you mentioned. Coaches do not want to see officials working the other side because of those expectations and philosophies that are often different on each side.

Peace

I don't remember the claim regarding D1. Might be the most absurd claim ever made on the board.

I remember it because I was challenged vigorously over my comments about not wanting or willing to work both at the college level.

Peace

I'm surprised to learn being challenged is what triggers your memory.

At the end of the day this is a discussion board. But there are some things that I am convinced people make up out of cloth on this site. And considering that there are a lot of absurd things said here or on the internet in general, that claim was pretty absurd as it is not like some of us have no experience with officials across the country directly and indirectly.

Peace

Didn't look it up ... it's on the right-hand side across from your name on every post. :)

Good point.

True.

There is one conference I can think of that might do this —*but I am not sure.

Big Sky Conference

No time required. Look up in the right corner of your post, right under "Illinois", and it has your number of posts right there.

If you can't find it, let us know, and Brad can post a picture complete with flashing arrows. He's really good at that techy stuff.

https://www.arbitersports.com/MYREFE...cle&pid=110992

I can definitely understand how it would happen in the Big Sky since it's so spread out and there aren't exactly lots of tavel hubs in Idaho, Montana and North Dakota. Financially it makes sense for the conference if someone can handle the travel load.

Quantity Versus Quality ???
 

Get the post number high enough and you become an esteemed member?

Just a click of the mouse, IPad or computer screen and you can become whatever you want to be on here without the post numbers. ;)

Peace

With A Dial Up Modem ...
 

I use a Commodore C64. Will that work?

Load "*", 8

Was that the code?

Peace