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-   -   Trouble Bruin in the Pac-12 - & it Ain't UCLA! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94643-trouble-bruin-pac-12-aint-ucla.html)

Andy Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:37am

I heard the ESPN report this morning....first time I had heard about this situation.

Ed Rush came and spoke to my officials group several years ago, when he was supervisor for the NBA. Nice guy, good speaker. He also made some references to players and coaches in the NBA at that time that were considered PITA and how the officials would "handle" them...everybody in the room knew it was in jest and funny. Just something officials do amongst themselves.

What pisses me off is that the "integrity of the officials" is being called into question. We get Sean Miller on TV saying "All I said was "He touched the ball" and I get a T for that..." We don't get to hear the officials side of the story and we won't ever get to.

icallfouls Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:43am

Just heard on Dan Patrick, talking to Wichita State coach. Coach thinks he should be gone.

They are also talking about the targeting of coaches/players by some officials.

This train is picking up speed.

Adam Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 888577)
Just heard on Dan Patrick, talking to Wichita State coach. Coach thinks he should be gone.

They are also talking about the targeting of coaches/players by some officials.

This train is picking up speed.

And everyone who ever had a grudge against Rush, or any other official, is going to come out with their own conspiracy theory about how the officials are out to get them.

For the record, this is why I never buy any conspiracy theory. Someone will always be disgruntled and speak out.

JRutledge Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballgame99 (Post 888552)
I don't watch any PAC12 ball, but if Miller was such a PIA, and such a problem, why was this his first tech of the year? What has he done to be targeted? Did he complain about officiating in the press or something?

Easy. There are coaches in conferences that act up and officials let is slide because they feel that giving a T would hurt them professionally because of who he is and the school he comes from. I did see Arizona games several times this year and Miller does rant a lot and probably after several situations officials were asked about his behavior. I bet this was just a long line of stuff where Rush felt officials were giving him a pass. Remember NBA guys were never afraid to T up a coach and even a player. I am not going to say Miller was worse than other coaches in that league, but I can understand why Rush would feel that the officials were not doing their job.

Peace

BayStateRef Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 888580)
I am not going to say Miller was worse than other coaches in that league, but I can understand why Rush would feel that the officials were not doing their job.

Then he needs to learn how to communicate. First, the conference championship is not the time to suddenly get religion. Second, words matter.

I had a high school assignor tell me before a game a couple of years ago that if there were any problems we were to deal with it and he would back us completely. My take from what he said (this was at halftime of the the JV game, when I had just arrived for the varsity game) was that he had complaints that some officials were not taking care of business and he wanted to say it loud and clear that he had our back. There was nothing in his statement, tone or mannerism that anyone could take as anything against any coach or player.

This year, I heard of an assignor tell an AD that he had complaints about a coach from several officials. The AD said if the coach is such a problem, then how come he has not received one technical foul? When I shared this story with some officials who work that league, at least one said that was accurate: that he had not issued a T in one game where it was probably warranted. Now...there was never a conversation, memo or anything else to officials that said: this coach is a problem, deal with it. But if the assignor is hearing these reports (and maybe even observing the behavior himself), then he should be making clear to his officials of his expectations. If that is all Ed Rush was doing, that is correct. But timing, location, tone and words matter. From what I have read (and I will accept that it was supposed to be a "joke"), he still failed on virtually every one of those counts.

The memos I saw this season from the NCAA and from my college assignors about bench decorum and dealing with coaches were not echoed by any high school assignor. I know some officials say they are proud they have not called a T in many years; others almost brag about how many they call. If there is a level of expectation from our assignors, then I say they need to be able to tell us that.

JRutledge Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:35am

So you are telling me you have never been with a group of officials and no one in that meeting ever made a comment about a coach or player or school?

I know I have been in that situation and never took those situations that seriously. And he could have communicated this better, but obviously someone went to the press (and did not want to be identified) by telling what happened in the room.

No one prior to this incident was claiming Arizona was targeted in any way or that there was some conspiracy about a T or the actions in that game. The press conference after the game in the Pac-12 Tournament was a typical coach complaining what happened in the game like you saw with the Baylor Coach. Miller tried to act like he did not curse so that was the reason he should not have gotten the T. And if no money or trips were included in the comments I seriously doubt we would know this even took place.

Peace

BayStateRef Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:49am

Of course I have been with that group of officials. Some coaches are "known" to be problems and officials do talk about them...and what the coach, said, did, etc. and how that was dealt with. I find this helpful in my preparation for any game.

But there is a big difference between talk amongst officials and a talk (some would say "instruction") from a supervisor/assignor.

twocentsworth Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:54am

Fellas - the facts are simple:

- Ed Rush, in a meeting on Thr. of the conference tournament, told game officials he would pay $5,000 or give them a trip to Cancun to anyone who "rang him up" or "ran him".
- Ed Rush said the same thing in a meeting the next day, Friday.
- On Friday, one official (who was present in BOTH meetings) assessed a T to the very same coach (AFTER an incorrect call went against Arizona).
- Per a PAC-12 official, the game official who assessed the T doesn't normally give people a T (in fact he worked only 11 games this yr w/ a T; which ranks him tied for 144th nationally).
- The ONLY T that Miller got during the year was in this game.

When you think about it, here's where it gets even more suspicious.

During conference tournaments, aren't players and coaches even more emotional than during the regular season? The officials that are selected to work these games not only get plays right, but more importantly, have the ability to manage players/coaches during incredibly tense situations.

During the BCS conference tournaments this year (PAC 12, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, & Big East), do you know how many times a coach was assessed a T?.....

TWICE: Arizona's Miller and UCLA's Howland (vs Oregon in the Champ. Game).

During the 68 total tournament games played, some of the most volatile and boisterous coaches in America weren't penalized...yet a guy who had not received 1 T all season gets one AFTER the Supervisor specifically targets him in a meeting - not once but TWICE?

You're right....it WAS a joke after all.

JRutledge Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayStateRef (Post 888594)
Of course I have been with that group of officials. Some coaches are "known" to be problems and officials do talk about them...and what the coach, said, did, etc. and how that was dealt with. I find this helpful in my preparation for any game.

But there is a big difference between talk amongst officials and a talk (some would say "instruction") from a supervisor/assignor.

Not if the supervisor has seen behavior over and over again and officials were allowing this coach more leeway than anyone else. We must remember that Arizona was probably on national TV more than anyone else in that league and unlike many of our games, ever game probably has an evaluator or someone that reviews the games, so it is possible that Rush was tired of how officials were not doing their jobs. How often do we talk on this site about how we cannot believe an coach was not T'd or player's action were not penalized? Rush unlike us is the supervisor and he has the right to tell his staff to do their job. That does not mean that the way he communicated that was not over the top, but it does appear to me he was joking. Unless we have some evidence he paid that official any money or trip then it obviously was hyperbole to make a point. I have no problem if that point had the message sent. And we still do not know what Miller did or did not do in that situation.

Peace

Bad Zebra Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 888595)
Fellas - the facts are simple:

- Ed Rush, in a meeting on Thr. of the conference tournament, told game officials he would pay $5,000 or give them a trip to Cancun to anyone who "rang him up" or "ran him".
- Ed Rush said the same thing in a meeting the next day, Friday.

Regardless of the bad timing and wrong environment to make such a "joke", wouldn't a SUPERVISOR need to have a better sense of how his "joke" was going to be interpreted? I can understand a couple staff officials kidding around about collecting a reward...but the SUPERVISOR??? Pretty astounding to me.

zebraman Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:17pm

Perception is reality. I think twocentsworth is dead-on when he ties everything together. That is how a lot of the public will see it and how ESPN will portray it. Ed Rush has backed himself into a corner.

It was a dumb comment. In this day and age, dumb comments don't die. This is going to be fun to watch.

On a related note, this wouldn't have happened if officials (at all levels, not just the NCAA) would learn to penalize inappropriate bench conduct.

"I didn't see it..." "my partner was closer..." "It didn't fit the game...." "It wouldn't have made the game better..." "The coach was on the other end of the floor when he was berating us...." "I've seen worse..." "He didn't say any swear words..." "I prefer to manage the situation instead of giving a T...."

All excuses to not have the guts to take care of business.

Judtech Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:19pm

I predict the first T in the PAC-10 will go like this:
Coach sees a call he feels is questionable
Coach asks official if Rush paid him to make that call
Coach gets T
Coach asks how much Rush paid him to give the T
Assistant Coach takes over coaching duties the rest of the night.

Every close or 'controversial' play made by officials supervised by Rush will now be endlessly, and some would argue appropriately, by everyone. How does that not harm officiating?

Judtech Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebraman (Post 888603)
Perception is reality. I think twocentsworth is dead-on when he ties everything together. That is how a lot of the public will see it and how ESPN will portray it. Ed Rush has backed himself into a corner.

It was a dumb comment. In this day and age, dumb comments don't die. This is going to be fun to watch.

On a related note, this wouldn't have happened if officials (at all levels, not just the NCAA) would learn to penalize inappropriate bench conduct.

"I didn't see it..." "my partner was closer..." "It didn't fit the game...." "It wouldn't have made the game better..." "The coach was on the other end of the floor when he was berating us...." "I've seen worse..." "He didn't say any swear words..." "I prefer to manage the situation instead of giving a T...."

All excuses to not have the guts to take care of business.

Or my favorite: Man, that coach is getting on my nerves. Someone should T him.

JRutledge Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:26pm

Let us not go on about what the public thinks. Many of the public felt the NFL had no right to penalize the Saints for their actions either. I put little stock in what the public thinks on an issue where they never have direct knowledge of how a profession works.

Peace

johnnyg08 Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 888607)
Let us not go on about what the public thinks. Many of the public felt the NFL had no right to penalize the Saints for their actions either. I put little stock in what the public thinks on an issue where they never have direct knowledge of how a profession works.

Peace

agree with this 100%


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