Duke-Louisville foul no continuation clip (Dieng/Plumlee 2nd half)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is a classic example of the offensive team being penalized by not having the shot count/free throws awarded.

The offensive player gather the ball that preceding his normal shooting motion prior to being fouled.

I have a feeling this play will be in next years' Pre-Season Officiation Video as an example of incorrectly canceling a shot.

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

What caused him to change the direction in which he was moving? (Answer: the foul by the defender).

Once the offensive player starts his habitual shooting motion, nowhere in the rule does it specify a direction or location on the court that the offensive player must be in to be considered "in the act of shooting" (see the 3 shots awarded the Charlotte player vs Richmond during the A10 Conference Tournament).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

What caused him to change the direction in which he was moving? (Answer: the foul by the defender).

He was going away before the foul....so that doesn't help your point much.

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Once the offensive player starts his habitual shooting motion, nowhere in the rule does it specify a direction or location on the court that the offensive player must be in to be considered "in the act of shooting" (see the 3 shots awarded the Charlotte player vs Richmond during the A10 Conference Tournament).

All good, if he had actually started any motion looking like a shot prior to the foul. He hadn't. At the time he was fouled, he could have been shooting, passing, or stopping. The shot looked like an afterthought that he put up after getting fouled. If he was going to the basket when he got fouled, I'm using my brain to decide what he was doing at the time of the foul and will inclined to call that a shooting, but not when he is going away from the basket and only turns toward the basket after getting fouled.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

It actually starts before the gather, but then again I would have awarded shots.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

1. If one of the admins could change the title of the thread. I have the foul on Smith when it was actually Dieng. Thanks.

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

1. If one of the admins could change the title of the thread. I have the foul on Smith when it was actually Dieng. Thanks.

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

I think he had ended his dribble, but that doesn't mean he had started his habitual motion. The more I see this, the more I agree with Camron.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

And such defender was left defending a player who got to start is move by traveling. It is a double whammy against a defender who is forced to defend an illegal move and then gets a foul when trying to keep up with the opponent who got an illegal head start.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It actually starts before the gather, but then again I would have awarded shots.

Peace

Shooting starts before you catch the ball? That is a new one.

It is oddly inconsistent how you argue for the latest possible gather when the topic is traveling but you have an extremely early gather when it comes to a shot. I'd hate to see you sort out the play when a player is fouled just after traveling in the midst of a gather. You'd rule it a shooting foul because he gathered and no travel because he hadn't gathered and everyone would be scratching their heads. You can't have it both ways and be right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Shooting starts before you catch the ball? That is a new one.

The habitual motion does.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The habitual motion does.

Peace

No it doesn't. Until you've caught the ball, you are not shooting. That much is certain. I don't think I have ever seen a player sent to the line for shots when they got fouled before they catch the ball.

You might as well argue that the last 3 dribbles before a shot are part of someone's habitual motion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No it doesn't.

OK, whatever you say. There was a S & I picture that once showed it did.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK, whatever you say. There was a S & I picture that once showed it did.

Peace

You seem to be confusing the Sunday comics with the S&I picture.

4-41
A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.
ART. 3 . . . The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

Right there you go....times 3.
1. You have to have the ball before you can be shooting it.
2. You have to be trying to throw it (and can't through something you don't have).
3. And the habitual motion "precedes the release"....meaning it occurs while the player is holding the ball.

Anything else (your definition of gather) is fiction.

4-11
Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

Gathering the ball is not "throwing movement". Almost ready to start throwing it to the basket is not enough. The rules require that they have actually started the throwing movement when they get fouled.