Duke-Louisville foul no continuation clip (Dieng/Plumlee 2nd half)

[Camron Rust]

Travel at the start.

At the time of the foul, it was not clear where he was trying to go with it. He was moving away from the basket and wasn't yet turning towards it. It was close and I could go either way on that one.

[twocentsworth]

This is a classic example of the offensive team being penalized by not having the shot count/free throws awarded.

The offensive player gather the ball that preceding his normal shooting motion prior to being fouled.

I have a feeling this play will be in next years' Pre-Season Officiation Video as an example of incorrectly canceling a shot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is a classic example of the offensive team being penalized by not having the shot count/free throws awarded.

The offensive player gather the ball that preceding his normal shooting motion prior to being fouled.

I have a feeling this play will be in next years' Pre-Season Officiation Video as an example of incorrectly canceling a shot.

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

What caused him to change the direction in which he was moving? (Answer: the foul by the defender).

Once the offensive player starts his habitual shooting motion, nowhere in the rule does it specify a direction or location on the court that the offensive player must be in to be considered "in the act of shooting" (see the 3 shots awarded the Charlotte player vs Richmond during the A10 Conference Tournament).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

What caused him to change the direction in which he was moving? (Answer: the foul by the defender).

He was going away before the foul....so that doesn't help your point much.

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Once the offensive player starts his habitual shooting motion, nowhere in the rule does it specify a direction or location on the court that the offensive player must be in to be considered "in the act of shooting" (see the 3 shots awarded the Charlotte player vs Richmond during the A10 Conference Tournament).

All good, if he had actually started any motion looking like a shot prior to the foul. He hadn't. At the time he was fouled, he could have been shooting, passing, or stopping. The shot looked like an afterthought that he put up after getting fouled. If he was going to the basket when he got fouled, I'm using my brain to decide what he was doing at the time of the foul and will inclined to call that a shooting, but not when he is going away from the basket and only turns toward the basket after getting fouled.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Once again... gather does not equal shooting. It might, usually when going towards the basket, but it isn't automatic. In this case, he was going away from the basket.

It actually starts before the gather, but then again I would have awarded shots.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

1. If one of the admins could change the title of the thread. I have the foul on Smith when it was actually Dieng. Thanks.

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

1. If one of the admins could change the title of the thread. I have the foul on Smith when it was actually Dieng. Thanks.

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

I think he had ended his dribble, but that doesn't mean he had started his habitual motion. The more I see this, the more I agree with Camron.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

2. Regardless of who it was on I have continuation here. He had ended his dribble and was into the habitual motion when Dieng bumped him.

And such defender was left defending a player who got to start is move by traveling. It is a double whammy against a defender who is forced to defend an illegal move and then gets a foul when trying to keep up with the opponent who got an illegal head start.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It actually starts before the gather, but then again I would have awarded shots.

Peace

Shooting starts before you catch the ball? That is a new one.

It is oddly inconsistent how you argue for the latest possible gather when the topic is traveling but you have an extremely early gather when it comes to a shot. I'd hate to see you sort out the play when a player is fouled just after traveling in the midst of a gather. You'd rule it a shooting foul because he gathered and no travel because he hadn't gathered and everyone would be scratching their heads. You can't have it both ways and be right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Shooting starts before you catch the ball? That is a new one.

The habitual motion does.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The habitual motion does.

Peace

No it doesn't. Until you've caught the ball, you are not shooting. That much is certain. I don't think I have ever seen a player sent to the line for shots when they got fouled before they catch the ball.

You might as well argue that the last 3 dribbles before a shot are part of someone's habitual motion.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

The offensive player gather the ball that preceding his normal shooting motion prior to being fouled.

So he was fouled during the gather, which precedes the normal shooting motion. Which means he hadn't started his normal shooting motion, which means no shot.

Full disclosure. I haven't watched the clip yet. Work, no access to videos.

[JRutledge]

I clearly have a shooting foul.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Travel at the start.

At the time of the foul, it was not clear where he was trying to go with it. He was moving away from the basket and wasn't yet turning towards it. It was close and I could go either way on that one.

Watching it live, I wasn't even sure if he'd gathered it yet. After watching it again, I agree with you. He may have gathered, but it wasn't clear what he was doing.

I probably would have counted it, but I can understand either way.