Michigan State-Duke clip(s)
 

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wgMsUC8ohdM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes, I'm A Travelin' Man (Ricky Nelson) ...
 

Real time: Travel. Travel. Travel.
Slow motion: Travel. Travel. Travel.

Which on on the first play are people trying to say is a travel?

Peace

Kelly ; catch, w/both hands, left foot down, right foot down, left foot re-positioned (?)

Some have said that we don't call enough PC fouls, that we penalize the defense too often. No calls on these 3 plays penalize the defense.

Yes they are so penalized to the point they lost the game. Oh the humanity!!!! :rolleyes:

Peace

Travel on all 3 plays.

That would be a really clever and worthwhile comment if not for the fact that the no calls involved both teams. :rolleyes:

Did it ever occur to you the officials did not feel these are travels? If the standard is the minute you touch the basketball then I guess I would see your point. If the issue is it is judged when actual possession takes place, another issue. Then again I do not expect you to agree, but that is OK. I am sure you call these 100 percent of the time no matter what.

Peace

Stop using this ad hominem argument in so many of your posts. This phrase helps no one.

I will do what ever the hell I want to do within the guidelines of this board.

When people stop acting like every missed travel has a hightened tragedy to every other missed violation in the game. Maybe when that happens I will stop making this point. But I do not see anyone going nuts over 3 seconds, offensive post play, or players running out of bounds (all penalize the defense), but somehow the travel is the conspiracy.

Just say you think it is a travel, why all the hyperbole about why it was or was not called?

Are you saying they're not, or trying to justify the missed calls somehow?


We've seen before on this board that one can apply the "hadn't finished gathering" argument to anything. But, especially on #2 here, that is ludicrous. It was a slow, deliberate move with the pivot foot ending up on the floor 10 feet away from its original location prior to the release.

Play #3 I would have called a travel at midseason in the 9-10 year old league.

"Come on, son. Don't forget, you have to dribble. You can't just run with it."



I call them when I see them, and it was no trouble to see any of these.

In order to travel you have to have possession of the ball correct?

OK. And with kids that are very clumsy at that age I am sure you call a lot of them.

No one is disputing your ability to see something, but that does not make it true every play you think is a travel is a travel in everyone else's eyes. I know not everyone here is going to agree with me on this issue. I have seen enough of these videos over the past year or so and seen the comments people make in relationship to travels. I just ask for it to be clear for rules based reasons, not because it looked a certain way. And I am certainly not going to go around thinking that my opinion is the only one that matters. You have said time and time again that you think these are passed on on purpose while sitting on your couch. I just find that ironic that is all.

Peace

Often when a player gains control is the question, especially when control is first in only one hand. All 3 of these were clean catches in 2 hands and the ball never moved. Not an issue for me.


So am I to understand that you don't see a travel on any of these either?

I do think there is a case to be made that what you consider control, someone else would not consider control. And I also never said it was hard to see, I just obviously do not agree when they have control as you do. But what else is new?

Peace

Be careful, just because it is obvious to you probably means you guessed at it and got lucky with the video proof.;)

So, enlighten us. Is control an issue here? Are these all good no calls, too?

No it is so obvious, tell us why they are travels. It is one thing to say it is a travel, it is another to be specific as to why. Because once I tell you why I feel they might not be traveling you will just say I was wrong and ignoring the obvious, so why bother?

Peace

Fair enough but if that's the case, based on the rule book, it would be nice to know why. If they just plain old missed them then hey, that's the way life goes. We all do but I'm pretty sure we all try not to.

JRut, I think we as a group analyze everything critically on this board not just travels. It just happens to be the violation that's called - and possibly seen - most often other than a ball going OOB. It's not some sort of tragedy or conspiracy. There are just some plays where we wonder how it was missed.

I'm just baffled why the two travel discussions - this and the Syracuse/Indiana clip - have become so argumentative. Either the players did or they didn't. Some plays may have more debate than others based on camera angles but to add on to what BayState said in the other thread the goal of posting these is to get better.

Which way do you want it?

All basketball plays can be up for debate. We debate block-charge plays (which have clear rules), we debate Flagrant/Intentional Fouls, not sure why we cannot debate travels. There are rules that apply in those cases too. It seems simple to me, but I guess to others they know best.

Peace

All 3 involve very different looks at the same basic principal. A player holding the ball lifts the pivot and returns it to the floor. None of these plays is close to being legal to me. I set out to watch this game looking for examples. All 3 of these jumped off the screen to me in real time.

Again, these are not whether they jumped off the screen to you, you obviously think there is no debate of your position. And most of all they were not called to your liking, so there must be some reason they were not called. I guess the only explanation was you were right and everyone on the game was totally wrong.

Peace

And obviously you think there is, so what is it?

In all seriousness, and no disrespect intended. Why do you think they aren't traveling? If you think they aren't.

If you are asking about the plays in question, I do not see possession when you touch the ball. I do not expect a player to have a pivot foot until they actually catch the ball. And I saw two similar plays and if I recall no one said which one was a travel and why.

Peace

For me, the trend is disturbing. More and more D1 officials seem to be laying off the travels reviewed by these three clips. I agree...all three are travels. Most disturbing is the way the spin move is ignored. As a HS official, I have seen it increase at my level. I make a point of calling it when I see it. Not all my fellow officials are as vigilant. So now, the trend established at D1 is becoming prevalent in HS. I make a call and I get the "What did I do" routine.

Why does this bother me? BECAUSE IT IS A DEPARTURE FROM THE FREAKIN' RULES! College is becoming more like the NBE...and now it's creeping into the HS game.

Then you must be disturbed by all the travels that HS officials call that are not travels. High dribbles, fumbled ball called a travel. Man I wish I had a penny every time I see a high dribble called illegal in HS. That is also a departure of the rules. And I really hope that you are not equating a complaining player to what happens at other levels. College players say less than anyone in basketball to officials. They know they cannot act up. You think Jim Burr, Teddy Valentine or any other big name that will be around a lot longer than most of these kids is going to put up with some kid yelling at them?

And funny there is an NBE reference to what happens at the lower levels. That is rich after all the self-righteous ranting about travels I have read over the years and the NBA has a different set of rules or standards to what they consider a travel.

Peace

Will you be consistent and start calling NCAA basketball some silly name/acronym like people do with the NBA?

The NCAE? :D

Peace

I could start..I'll work on one...or maybe they already have one that fits: NCAA:No Consistency At All ?

Yep. It is disturbing. And it is addressed and stressed every pre-season locally and during the season when it's observed. In our association (and even state level to a degree), we stress "just because it looks funny, it's not a travel". Constant focus and feedback by observers and veterans. I'm comfortable that we are doing our part locally. I wish I could see evidence of the same at the college level.

We give feedback too and talk about it and it is still called too often. I can live with a missed travel that is hard to tell, I cannot stand a traveled called because it did not happen. That to me is much worse.

And many so-called High School Officials on this board said a play earlier in the tournament said a travel should have been called on a shot where the shooter planted his pivot foot and people here said it was a travel. They said it was a travel in live time, then they said it was a travel after replay. That is why I say what I say about this topic.

Peace

Hard to argue with this paragraph.

That spin move is a violation I call regularly. And coaches seem to recognize it now as a travel.

I'd have called #2, and #3, in real time. I saw it in #1, but this isn't something that gets called regularly.

I know the spin move is something my association wants called (note, this is not to say that the players don't do this well; only that this guy didn't.)