Michigan State-Duke clip(s)

[just another ref]

Some have said that we don't call enough PC fouls, that we penalize the defense too often. No calls on these 3 plays penalize the defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Some have said that we don't call enough PC fouls, that we penalize the defense too often. No calls on these 3 plays penalize the defense.

Yes they are so penalized to the point they lost the game. Oh the humanity!!!!

Peace

[OKREF]

Travel on all 3 plays.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes they are so penalized to the point they lost the game. Oh the humanity!!!!

Peace

That would be a really clever and worthwhile comment if not for the fact that the no calls involved both teams.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That would be a really clever and worthwhile comment if not for the fact that the no calls involved both teams.

Did it ever occur to you the officials did not feel these are travels? If the standard is the minute you touch the basketball then I guess I would see your point. If the issue is it is judged when actual possession takes place, another issue. Then again I do not expect you to agree, but that is OK. I am sure you call these 100 percent of the time no matter what.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sure you call these 100 percent of the time no matter what.

Stop using this ad hominem argument in so many of your posts. This phrase helps no one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

Stop using this ad hominem argument in so many of your posts. This phrase helps no one.

I will do what ever the hell I want to do within the guidelines of this board.

When people stop acting like every missed travel has a hightened tragedy to every other missed violation in the game. Maybe when that happens I will stop making this point. But I do not see anyone going nuts over 3 seconds, offensive post play, or players running out of bounds (all penalize the defense), but somehow the travel is the conspiracy.

Just say you think it is a travel, why all the hyperbole about why it was or was not called?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did it ever occur to you the officials did not feel these are travels?

Fair enough but if that's the case, based on the rule book, it would be nice to know why. If they just plain old missed them then hey, that's the way life goes. We all do but I'm pretty sure we all try not to.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When people stop acting like every missed travel has a hightened tragedy to every other missed violation in the game. Maybe when that happens I will stop making this point. But I do not see anyone going nuts over 3 seconds, offensive post play, or players running out of bounds (all penalize the defense), but somehow the travel is the conspiracy?

JRut, I think we as a group analyze everything critically on this board not just travels. It just happens to be the violation that's called - and possibly seen - most often other than a ball going OOB. It's not some sort of tragedy or conspiracy. There are just some plays where we wonder how it was missed.

I'm just baffled why the two travel discussions - this and the Syracuse/Indiana clip - have become so argumentative. Either the players did or they didn't. Some plays may have more debate than others based on camera angles but to add on to what BayState said in the other thread the goal of posting these is to get better.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did it ever occur to you the officials did not feel these are travels?

Are you saying they're not, or trying to justify the missed calls somehow?

If the standard is the minute you touch the basketball then I guess I would see your point. If the issue is it is judged when actual possession takes place, another issue.

We've seen before on this board that one can apply the "hadn't finished gathering" argument to anything. But, especially on #2 here, that is ludicrous. It was a slow, deliberate move with the pivot foot ending up on the floor 10 feet away from its original location prior to the release.

Play #3 I would have called a travel at midseason in the 9-10 year old league.

"Come on, son. Don't forget, you have to dribble. You can't just run with it."

I'm sure you call these 100 percent of the time no matter what.

Peace

I call them when I see them, and it was no trouble to see any of these.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Are you saying they're not, or trying to justify the missed calls somehow?

In order to travel you have to have possession of the ball correct?

Originally Posted by just another ref

We've seen before on this board that one can apply the "hadn't finished gathering" argument to anything. But, especially on #2 here, that is ludicrous. It was a slow, deliberate move with the pivot foot ending up on the floor 10 feet away from its original location prior to the release.

Play #3 I would have called a travel at midseason in the 9-10 year old league.

"Come on, son. Don't forget, you have to dribble. You can't just run with it."

OK. And with kids that are very clumsy at that age I am sure you call a lot of them.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I call them when I see them, and it was no trouble to see any of these.

No one is disputing your ability to see something, but that does not make it true every play you think is a travel is a travel in everyone else's eyes. I know not everyone here is going to agree with me on this issue. I have seen enough of these videos over the past year or so and seen the comments people make in relationship to travels. I just ask for it to be clear for rules based reasons, not because it looked a certain way. And I am certainly not going to go around thinking that my opinion is the only one that matters. You have said time and time again that you think these are passed on on purpose while sitting on your couch. I just find that ironic that is all.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In order to travel you have to have possession of the ball correct?

Often when a player gains control is the question, especially when control is first in only one hand. All 3 of these were clean catches in 2 hands and the ball never moved. Not an issue for me.


So am I to understand that you don't see a travel on any of these either?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I call them when I see them, and it was no trouble to see any of these.

Be careful, just because it is obvious to you probably means you guessed at it and got lucky with the video proof.

[Adam]

I'd have called #2, and #3, in real time. I saw it in #1, but this isn't something that gets called regularly.

I know the spin move is something my association wants called (note, this is not to say that the players don't do this well; only that this guy didn't.)