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Basketball rule questions
Questions on Rules:
Solved Questions: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post886828 Dribbling: 1.After receiving a pass, under what condition can you take the 2 running steps? Can you stand still? Are you allowed to dribble? What if you took only 1 step or 1.5 step after receiving the pass, is it the same as 2 step or you can still dribble? 2.When you dribble, can your wrist touch the ball? Or is it considered grabbing the ball? and is there a hand position on the ball where it's considered holding the ball when you dribble? 3.Is there a limit how high you can dribble the ball? 4.Is there any condition for the 2 step run after dribble? 4a.Can i bounce the ball once without moving my legs, grab it (one or both hands) and quickly do a 2 step run for a layup or hotstep, or must i be in a "moving situation" to be allowed the 2 steps? 4b.Can i take 1 step backwards (or towards the basket but backwards) to trick opponents making them think i'm doing a 1 foot backstep shot and do another forward step for an easy shot? If yes is there a timeframe i must complete the move? I've seen postup players do something similar but they spin backwards with one foot and then take another front step on the other leg for a hookshot. 4c.Can i do something like a eurostep say after dribble step right with a fake layup, then step left with another fake jumpshot then take the real shot, all the while going abit airborne but not high enough to be considered a jump, something like tip toeing but with lots of fakes? I believe this move is pretty unfair as you can fake 2 defenders (3-4 if you pump faked before going in & fake the final step for a pass) and take the shot in between the 3 tip toeing (1st step after the dribble then 2 steps) if they didn't jump for the block. 5.Can you really take 3 steps after dribble (1 leg step then land on both feet the same time)? I know there's a rule stating you can but you cannot pivot after that. Can you do the same with a running pass? To me 3 steps after dribble seems wrong. 6.Can you hotstep immediately after receiving a running pass or you can only take the normal 2 steps? 7.When you dribble and the defender goes for the steal, are you allowed to use the non dribbling hand to block or even swap/push his hand away? 8.When you make a cut, how much elbow/arm movement is allowed? I see some players when they cut they move their non dribbling elbow with great force & speed (like sprinting) so any defender trying to get close would probably end up being elbowed. Others would try to use their arm to push the defender away even though they are infront, either to force their way in or make a room to squeeze through. I know you can lock the defender with your arms or give a small push if you already passed them but pushing/elbowing seems rough. 9.How much fumbling is allowed? Is it considered a fumble if you: 9a.Receive a pass with both hands but somehow you loose the ball after catching it and regain it with no one touching the ball, can you still dribble? 9b.If you finished your dribble and someone touches the ball while you are still holding it, do you get to dribble again or the ball has to leave your hands completely and someone else touching it before you could? 9c.If you finished your dribble and someone poked the ball, you somehow still grabbing the ball but looses it because of the poke earlier and recover the ball, do you get to dribble? 9d.If you go for a rebound with one hand and somehow dragged the ball and bounces to the floor once when you land and you grab it, can you still dribble? 9e.If you go for an intercept and somehow the ball bounces on the floor and you catches it, can you still dribble? What if it was a floor bounce pass and your hand happen to intercept it but the ball bounces on the floor again is it consider a dribble? 9f.Can i continue to fumble all the way to the paint by continuously "dropping" the ball? Or during certain situation where you finished the dribble yet found yourself stucked under the basket can you fake a fumble in order to move to a better position? Defending: 1.If a person does a fadeaway jumpshot and the defender had to lean forward to block, if the lower body made contact (usually legs) with the shooter is it a shooting foul as usually the shooter's lower body extend forward? 2.If a person shoots and the defender jumps for the block and the shooter hand hits the defender's hand is it consider a shooting foul? 3.If a person goes for a shot and uses his non-shooting arm to block the defender and contact made, is there a foul? Would it be a foul if the defender hit the shooter's blocking hand really hard? 4.How restricted zone works as i believe no charging can be called within the zone? So the offense can do whatever they want in the zone? Must the offense jump towards the basket within the zone for no-charging to apply or they can jump from 3-point line and not worry about any charging if contact made within the zone? 5.If a defender has gained position before the offense and the offense goes for the basket & the defender stays on the ground with arms up, if body contact is made is it a defensive foul? What if the defender jumps up or moved his hands and contact made. 6.If the offense makes a cut to the basket & the defender follows, usually the offense shoulder would make contact with the defender's chest and usually ends with a bump, is it a blocking foul? Or it's a blocking foul only when the defender suddenly dash infront of the offense when he's about to shoot? 7.If the defender jumps late for a jump shot, and body contact made after the ball left the shooter's hand, is it considered a shooting foul or just play on. What if the contact is big for example the defender collides with the shooter after the shooter just landed? 8.After a shooting foul, if the offense is trying to get a foul in, and gets fouled in the process how would it be interpreted? I know the defender can still go for the block but if there's another foul? 9.If the defender goes for a pump fake, jumped (vertical of his position not towards the shooter), the shooter takes this chance and jumps forward into or under him to get a contact is it consider a shooting foul, say if the shooter didn't jump towards the already air born defender there won't be contact? 10.How much contact is allowed before you get called for reach in foul? 11.If a person drives to the basket and jumps, the defender jumps to block, no contacts were made initially but the offense decide to do a switch hand and body contact was made, for example offense arm which he switched to was seriously blocked by the defender's arm/body which obstructed the shot, does it count as a shooting foul? 12.Is it possible to call shooting foul or other foul should significant body contact made only AFTER a shot has been released? 13.Is it possible to call Goal Tending on a Dunk? Offense: 1.How much bumping is allowed by the offense? Whether it's using shoulder or using their lower back (hip) to bump. Especially during post up & under the rim shots. 2.During post up or box out, how much arm is allowed to prevent the defender from getting close? Are you only allowed to use the arm to "block" or can you outright use your body weight on the arm and "push"? 3.What is "Up Down" rule, can you run the 2 steps in the mean time do fakes or you have to either pass or shoot once your arms in shooting form? 4.How much space must a screener give to make the screen legal? And must you hold both hands at your crouch when screening? What if you just position your arms normally like when you standstill, can you hold your hands to the chest if you see the defender charging into you to protect your body? 5a.If an offensive player runs in between a defender and ball handler is it consider a screen? Say if the player just "passing by". And would it be an illegal screen? 5b.If a offensive player runs infront a shooter & defender to block the defender's path how quickly must he gain position before being called illegal screen should contact made? 6.How does the 3second in the paint timer works? When does it reset? For example you post up in the paint, does it reset once you received the ball, or when you start the dribble, or when you catch the ball after dribble, does the counter still counts if you start doing pump fakes/pivot? When does the 3 second counter stop/reset while you are still in the paint? What if you end up passing the ball does the counter for that player gets reset? 7.5 seconds back to basket, how close do you need to be for the counter to start? under what condition does the counter reset (i.e fake half spin)? does it count when you are not dribbling but back to basket? 10.Is it an offense if you throw a ball at the opponent with full force? Rebounding: 1.How much contact must be made before over the back foul applies? How to determine if a player is indeed infront? 2.How much arm/elbow can you use while boxing out for rebound? And how much lower back (hip) bump can you use? 3.Are body contacts allowed during jumping for rebounding? Can you slap the opponents hand/arm while on air? 4.Does shooting foul apply for immediate airborne rebound putbacks (grabs rebound and shoots before landing)? 5.How much body contact is allowed for a chase for loose balls? Can i just charge towards the ball and knock the other chaser down if both are close? That is all i can think of on top of my mind right now. Also can someone explain the positions for throwing in out of bounds ball? |
Here's my contribution:
Under dribbling, #9: Fumble-dribble-fumble is legal. Dribble-fumble-dribble is not. |
Welcome to the forum.
But a word of advice, this is way too long. Hardly anyone is going to read all of it and answer any one question in one setting. If you have questions break them up into individual topics and ask those questions. I love to read these kinds of questions myself, but this is so long I would not know where to begin. Ask one or two basic questions and you will get a lot of responses, trust me on that one. Peace |
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Take your time, we're not going anywhere. Break it down to one or two questions per thread, maybe a couple of threads a day. Otherwise, you're not likely to get good answers to all of your questions. |
I have no idea what a hotstep is, but based on context, I suspect it may be illegal.
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I really can't believe I'm saying this, but this may be the perfect time for BillyMac's over-inclusive list of basketball myths. If someone (maybe even Billy) could post that here, the OP could read it and respond with whatever clarifying questions he has.
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I didn't read much of that but I will say two things: I don't know what a "hotstep" is and steps don't matter in regards to traveling violations.
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Meanwhile, here are a couple of basics that should give you some food for thought.
Fumbles are accidental. If the officials rule the player's action was intentional, it's not a fumble, and is considered a dribble. Traveling is not about the number of steps. It's about the pivot foot. A typical layup is gathered while the player is airborne, and his first foot down is not considered a 'step'. He then steps with the other foot before jumping off of that foot. His pivot foot landed and was lifted, but never came back down. Contact is typically called with advantage in mind. The bigger, stronger, and more talented the players get, the more contact they can play through. "Over the back" is not a foul, and inside position does not mean anything with regard to deciding whether it's a foul or not. I've called plenty of fouls on the inside player for pushing rather than boxing out. |
Hey, Somebody Finally Called ...
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The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player of a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule. A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or herself or another player. The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket. On most layups, the ball is going up after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up and not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard, during a tap, or a try, so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor is it a technical foul. The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot legally pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures. The traveling rule is one of the most misunderstood rules in basketball. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released. A player may slide on the floor while trying to secure a loose ball until that player’s momentum stops. At that point that player cannot attempt to get up or rollover. A player securing a ball while on the floor cannot attempt to stand up unless that player starts a dribble. A player in this situation may also pass, shoot, or request a timeout. If the player is flat on his or her back, that player may sit up without violating. A player must be holding the ball (with one very rare exception) in order to travel. A player can't travel while dribbling, while tapping the ball, while fumbling it, or while trying to recover a loose ball. During a fumble the player is not in control of the ball, and therefore, cannot be called for a traveling violation. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball is unintentionally dropped or slips from a player’s grasp. After a player has ended a dribble and fumbled the ball, that player may recover the ball without violating. Any steps taken during the recovery of a fumble are not traveling, regardless of how far the ball goes and the amount of advantage that is gained. It is always legal to recover a fumble, even at the end of a dribble, however that player cannot begin a new dribble, which would be an illegal dribble violation. A player who fumbles the ball when receiving a pass may legally start a dribble. The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player inbounding the ball may step on, but not over the line. During a designated spot throwin, the player inbounding the ball must keep one foot on or over the three-foot wide designated spot. An inbounding player is allowed to jump or move one or both feet. A player inbounding the ball may move backward as far as the five-second time limit or space allows. If player moves outside the three-foot wide designated spot it is a throwin violation, not traveling. In gymnasiums with limited space outside the sidelines and endlines, a defensive player may be asked to step back no more than three feet. A player inbounding the ball may “dribble” the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throwin. After a goal, or awarded goal, the team not credited with the score shall make the throw-in from any point outside the end line. A team retains this “run the endline” privilege if a timeout is called during the dead ball period after the goal. Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in, or may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate outside the boundary line. The defender may not break the boundary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the boundary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team delay warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the boundary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team delay warning will be recorded. If the defender breaks the boundary plane, and fouls the inbounding player, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team delay warning will be recorded. It is an intentional personal foul if the defender fouls the inbounding player, even without breaking the boundary plane, however, in this specific case, there is no delay of game warning because the defender did not break the boundary plane. The inbounding player does not have a plane restriction, but has five seconds to release the ball and it must come directly onto the court. The ball can always be passed into the backcourt during a throwin. This situation is not a backcourt violation. If a player's momentum carries him or her off the court, he or she can be the first player to touch the ball after returning inbounds. That player must not have left the court voluntarily and must immediately return inbounds. That player must have something in and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds. It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason. After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation. A moving screen is not in and of itself a foul, illegal contact must occur for a foul to be called. If a blind screen is set on a stationary defender, the defender must be given one normal step to change direction and attempt to avoid contact. If a screen is set on a moving defender, the defender gets a minimum of one step and a maximum of two steps, depending on the speed and distance of the defender. It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul. Reaching in is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. The mere act of reaching in, by itself, is nothing. If illegal contact does occur, it’s probably a holding foul, an illegal use of hands foul, or a hand check foul. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds, pushes or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is an intentional foul. |
This List May Be Too Long ...
Over the back is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. A taller player may often be able to get a rebound over a shorter player, even if the shorter player has good rebounding position. If the shorter player is displaced, then a pushing foul must be called. A rebounding player, with an inside position, while boxing out, is not allowed to push back or displace an opponent, which is a pushing foul.
A defensive player does not have to remain stationary to take a charge. A defender may turn away or duck to absorb contact, provided he or she has already established legal guarding position, which is both feet on the playing court and facing the opponent. The defender can always move backwards or sideways to maintain a legal guarding position and may even have one or both feet off the playing court when contact occurs. That player may legally rise vertically. If the defender is moving forward, then the contact is caused by the defender, which is a blocking foul. The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. Incidental contact is contact with an opponent which is permitted and does not constitute a foul. Contact, which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive moves, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe. Contact which does not hinder an opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental. A ten-second count continues when the defense deflects or bats the ball in the backcourt. When a dribbler is advancing the ball into the frontcourt, the ball maintains backcourt status until both feet and the ball touch entirely in the frontcourt. During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations. During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his or her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations. The closely guarded rule is in effect in frontcourt only, when a defender is within six feet of the ball handler. Up to three separate five-second counts may occur on the same ball handler, holding, dribbling, and holding. The count continues even if defenders switch. The five-second count ends when a dribbler gets his or her head and shoulders ahead of the defender. The intent of the three-second rule is to not allow an offensive player in the lane to gain an advantage. There is no three-second count between the release of a shot and the control of a rebound, at which time a new count starts. There is no three-second count during a throwin. There is no three-second count while the ball is in the backcourt. There is a three-second count during an interrupted dribble. There is a three-second count while an offensive player has one foot in the lane and one foot outside of the lane, and the three-second count continues if this player lifts the foot in the lane so that neither foot is touching inside the lane. To stop the count this player must have both feet touch the court outside of the lane. It’s a violation for a player to step out of bounds in an attempt to avoid a three second violation. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal. The head coach may request and be granted a timeout if his or her player is holding or dribbling the ball, or during a dead ball period. A player saving the ball in the air can ask for and be granted a timeout even if that player is going out of bounds. The key is whether or not the player has control of the ball. On free throws, there is a maximum of two offensive players and four defensive players in the six marked lane spaces. The defense must be in the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks, on all free throws. The offense must not occupy the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks. The shooter and all the players in the designated lane spaces must wait until the ball hits rim or backboard before entering the lane. Players, other than the shooter, and the players in the designated lane spaces, are to remain behind the free throw line extended and behind the three point arc, and may not penetrate the free throw line extended and the three point arc until the ball hits rim or backboard. During a free throw, no opponent, including bench personnel, may disconcert the free thrower. For free throws when there are no rebounders in the marked lane spaces, i.e. technical fouls and intentional fouls, the nine nonshooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended and behind the three point arc. A held ball occurs when opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness. Action of arms and elbows resulting from total body movements as in pivoting or moving to prevent a held ball or loss of control shall not be considered excessive. It is a violation for a player to excessively swing his or her arms or elbows, even without contacting an opponent. Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot. An unintentionally kicked ball is never illegal, regardless of how far the ball goes and who recovers it. It is also illegal to hit the ball with a fist. A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock, however, a player doesn’t have to play a tick of the clock. Players may not participate while wearing jewelry. Religious medals or medical alert medals are not considered jewelry. A religious medal must be taped and worn under the uniform. A medical alert medal must be taped and may be visible. Headbands and wristbands must be white, black, beige or a single solid school color, provided all team members are wearing the same color for each item for all participants. Only a single item may be worn on the head and/or on each wrist. Sweatbands must be worn below the elbow. Rubber, cloth, or elastic bands, of any color, may be used to control hair. Undershirts must be similar in color to the jersey and shall not have frayed or ragged edges. Arm compression sleeves must be worn for medical purposes and must be white, black, beige or a single solid school color, and must be the same color for each team member. Officials are not required to explain judgment calls, but they may explain some calls if approached by the head coach in a respectful manner. Officials have been instructed to call technical fouls for profanity, unsporting acts, excessive complaints, or verbal abuse. Officials are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. Officials are not concerned with who wins or loses, but only fairness and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore cannot look at the game objectively. Players commit fouls and violations; officials view those infractions, judge the action, and then apply the rules of the game to what they had viewed. The rules then determine the penalty. Revised 1/12/13 |
potato: Welcome To The Jungle ...
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Matthew 7:7 ...
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I'll take #3. Answer is No. My eyes are tired of reading
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Can I Be Hulk Hogan ???
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The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot legally pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures. Notice that I picked an easy one. I'll leave the more difficult questions to esteemed Forum members. They're what you call experts. Who should I tag next? |
I don't think you can ever take 2 steps without dribbling, can you?
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Peace |
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In everyday terms, basketball notwithstanding, when you think of two steps, you picture this. A person is standing still with both feet on the floor. He lifts one foot, moves it forward, then returns it to the floor. He then lifts the other foot, moves it forward, and returns it to the floor.
You cannot legally do this holding a basketball. Period. (not talking about NBA) But watch the tournament for a few minutes, see a move to the basket, particularly a spin move, and this is dramatically contradicted. Over and over. |
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Peace |
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Yet it happens a lot without a call. |
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As I have said before a lot of travels are called improperly and a lot of them are not called. It is the nature of the beast. Peace |
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Peace |
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I'm going to continue to call it in my games despite the fact that it is (improperly by rule) not called at higher levels. |
There's one now. 15:26 second half Indiana Temple
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Now I can tell you that in a playoff game I had this year I had a situation where a certain player would do the same move every single time. I called like 5 travels on him in the same spot when I was in position or had on-ball coverage. My partners did not see it or were not calling it and I looked like the bad guy. Well the same crew had this same team two nights later and for some reason that move was almost never done again in the next game. Again, this was HS basketball, not anything on TV or with the eyes that we see in these games. Peace |
That's one long laundry list...
I'll grab another easy one:
Offense 9.Is it considered a kick ball if the ball handler throws the ball at the defender's foot? Does it apply to all parts of the legs? To be a KICK, the official has to judge the defender's action to be intentional. Thus, in your scenario, it would not be considered a KICK unless, for example, the defender lifts the foot to stop the ball. Also, it applies to the entire leg (shins, feet, knees, thighs) |
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The problem is when we do call what everybody sees at higher levels, but it doesn't get called there. Quote:
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And no I do not think what we called had anything to do with what he had been allowed to do. I think he just lost his fundamentals and did not learn after the first call. He somehow learned the next time. Players make mistakes, not everything they do has to do with us and what we call. And it certainly is not always about what others call at a level that everyone does not watch as closely as others. Peace |
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hi guys, thanks for the reply, i think i will keep this thread instead of opening multiple threads.
i will continue to add questions on 1st page & mark those that has been solved so we can continue to discuss the outstanding questions. Any of you guys have similar questions do post here and i'll try to add it into the 1st post. hopefully one day this thread can become the ultimate basketball myth thread. |
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Trust us. |
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so are we allowed to take 1 step (after your foot lands not inc 1/2 step) after receiving a running pass (you run towards the basket at full speed & receive a pass and you go for a layup. Or you have to jump the moment your foot lands on the ground after receiving the pass. Or dribble.
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Solved Questions:
Offensive: 8.Does the ball hitting the side of the board means it's out of bound like it would when it hits the top of the board/back of the board? http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post886444 9.Is it considered a kick ball if the ball handler throws the ball at the defender's foot? Does it apply to all parts of the legs?[/COLOR] http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post886535 |
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which makes me wonder, after the hopstep, can you still choose your pivot foot and pivot? |
just wanna let you guys know you guys are free to take your time to answer, you can just choose a question on the list (or not on the list) and we can discuss about it. i will move the answered question to another post.
treat it like ur 10000 movie collection that you gonna watch it as time goes by... |
hi Adam, regarding your "pivot" foot, do you mean as long as the pivot foot leaves the ground and doesn't touch the ground again you won't be called for travelling?
for example a guy finishes his dribble, took a step with his left foot (now pivot), then a right. Now both legs are on the ground, he lifts off his left pivot foot so he can extend his body further right with his right foot (since the left foot is off the ground he can move further right), and it's legal? in this case he can turn around, moving his non pivoting foot around and even extend his non-pivot foot even further right, releases his left pivot foot and gain a +1 step range advantage. i always though the pivot foot have to leave the ground after the non pivot, or at least the same time in such scenario? also for a normal 2 step layup, after his pivot foot leaves the ground, he can stand one leg on his non-pivot foot forever until he gets called for 3 secs/shotclock violation? Quote:
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If a player picks up his dribble with one foot on the floor, that foot is his pivot and if he lifts that foot, he must shoot, pass, or request timeout prior to putting it back on the floor. If he picks up his dribble while airborne, his first foot down is the pivot. If he lands on both, or picks up his dribble with both feet on the floor, either foot can be the pivot.
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still confusing.
in ur case you said after the pivot foot (let's assume left) leaves the ground you can take another step (right) (2 step after dribble run), does it mean as long as the pivot foot that is airborne doesn't touch the ground you can still stand on the non pivot foot? In this case can't you keep hopping with your non pivot foot that is on the ground while the pivot foot is still in the air? also in my example, the player sets left as his pivot foot then sets his right foot on the ground (so both feet on the ground), this means he can extend his right non pivot foot to as far as he can, lift off his left pivot foot 1st then jumps on his right non pivot foot to get maximum lateral extension? is there another rule to govern such cases? Quote:
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I saw a video of Michael Jordan getting called for travelling while dribbling.
He wasn't palming, just that he was taking 4-5 quick-mini steps while the ball was on his hand. He wasn't palming or holding the ball just his steps were so quick he did 4-5 steps. I always though you can only take maximum of 2 steps while the ball is touching your hand while you are dribbling? But with this statement it becomes invalid. Quote:
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The 2 narratives on stealing/reaching seems unfair for the offense. An accidental hit can sometimes be sufficient to cause the ball handler to loose the ball/affect his shots. I'm guessing if it's a minor contact and the defender doesn't get any advantage out of it it's ok. But if it's enough to affect the ball handler it should be a foul.
Then again i know there's the legendary "The Hand(s) in contact of the ball is part of the ball & it's legal to hit the ball rule hence it's legal to hit the hand in contact with the ball." Quote:
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Gonna be really hard to sort through all this now.
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Pro tip: stop asking questions involving "number of steps". This whole discussion should center around which foot is the pivot, and what the players does with that pivot. |
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Quoted from first page -- I am answering using mostly NFHS rules
Defending: 1.If a person does a fadeaway jumpshot and the defender had to lean forward to block, if the lower body made contact (usually legs) with the shooter is it a shooting foul as usually the shooter's lower body extend forward? This is the subject of a recent thread involving Kobe Bryant and his last second fadeaway against the Hawks. A fadeaway shot is taken for a reason -- so the shooter can create space. If the defender does not allow him to land, or takes out his legs, it is a foul. However, depending on the points of emphasis where you are, a shooter kicking out a leg trying to draw contact should not be called. 2.If a person shoots and the defender jumps for the block and the shooter hand hits the defender's hand is it consider a shooting foul? If the defensive player is being vertical with his arms I am unlikely to call a foul. If the defender tries to block the ball but gets all arm, that is a foul. In this situation, don't punish the defender for playing good, legal defense. 3.If a person goes for a shot and uses his non-shooting arm to block the defender and contact made, is there a foul? Would it be a foul if the defender hit the shooter's blocking hand really hard? If the defender is hit in the head or disadvantaged from legally challenging the shot, it should be an offensive foul. In your second question, who initiated contact? If the defender is vertical with his arms, and the offensive player pushes to create space, offensive foul. If the defender initiates non-legal or incidental contact, defensive foul. 4.How restricted zone works as i believe no charging can be called within the zone? So the offense can do whatever they want in the zone? Must the offense jump towards the basket within the zone for no-charging to apply or they can jump from 3-point line and not worry about any charging if contact made within the zone? As long as a defender establishes Legal Guarding Position outside the Restricted Area, and providing they maintain that Legal Guarding Position, they can draw a charge anywhere on the court, including inside the restricted area. I am not sure how a player can jump from the 3-point line and commit a charge in the RA. Is the player still in the air?? 5.If a defender has gained position before the offense and the offense goes for the basket & the defender stays on the ground with arms up, if body contact is made is it a defensive foul? What if the defender jumps up or moved his hands and contact made. A defensive player in Legal Guarding Position can draw a charge with his feet on the ground, or while in the air. The location of the feet does not matter. A defender who has LGP may jump straight up, have the offensive player initiate contact, and draw a charge whilst in the air. This is rarely called, but I think it is correct. 6.If the offense makes a cut to the basket & the defender follows, usually the offense shoulder would make contact with the defender's chest and usually ends with a bump, is it a blocking foul? Or it's a blocking foul only when the defender suddenly dash infront of the offense when he's about to shoot? When using our judgement to determine fouls, the easiest question to ask is "was the offensive player put at an illegal disadvantage?" If yes, then perhaps there is a foul on the defender. Any bump is not necessarily a foul, you should read the NFHS section on "Incidental Contact" to better understand what contact is and is not a foul. 7.If the defender jumps late for a jump shot, and body contact made after the ball left the shooter's hand, is it considered a shooting foul or just play on. What if the contact is big for example the defender collides with the shooter after the shooter just landed? It depends on the amount of body contact. If the defender jumps and lands on the guy, or crashes into him hard, it might be a foul. If the defender is trying to avoid the contact, and the shooter flops, no call. According to NFHS rules, when the shooter lands he is not longer a shooter. Thus, the basket would count if it went in, and the appropriate foul (push, block, etc) would be called and administered. 8.After a shooting foul, if the offense is trying to get a foul in, and gets fouled in the process how would it be interpreted? I know the defender can still go for the block but if there's another foul? You need to be more specific before I can answer this question. If the shooter is fouled (and the foul is called), but then fouls the defender, it is a dead ball technical foul. It may or may not be intentional or flagrant. If you mean during a shooting foul another foul is called (perhaps a hold on players jostling for rebound position) then the fouls all count. The penalties are then administered in order of occurrence. 9.If the defender goes for a pump fake, jumped (vertical of his position not towards the shooter), the shooter takes this chance and jumps forward into or under him to get a contact is it consider a shooting foul, say if the shooter didn't jump towards the already air born defender there won't be contact? This is a typical NBA play done to draw a foul. If the defender jumps straight up and the offensive player jumps forward into the defender trying to draw contact, I have no foul. If the offensive player undercuts the vertical defender, I might have an offensive foul. If any defender has Legal Guarding Position and jumps vertically with vertical arms, I consider that excellent defense and do not often call a foul in that situation. 10.How much contact is allowed before you get called for reach in foul? Going back to what I said earlier "was the player put at a disadvantage?" If the defender swats the ball away with his fingers but had to hits the offensive players arm with his forearm to get to the ball, I have a foul. 11.If a person drives to the basket and jumps, the defender jumps to block, no contacts were made initially but the offense decide to do a switch hand and body contact was made, for example offense arm which he switched to was seriously blocked by the defender's arm/body which obstructed the shot, does it count as a shooting foul? You have to "referee the defense". If the defense is legal, and the offensive player initiates contact, I am unlikely to penalize the defender, no matter which arm the offensive player shoots the ball with. 12.Is it possible to call shooting foul or other foul should significant body contact made only AFTER a shot has been released? Yes, it is possible. If there is significant contact made, there might be a foul. 13.Is it possible to call Goal Tending on a Dunk? Yes it is. If the offensive player has the ball in his hand, and it is blocked, it is a good block. Once the player releases the ball during the dunk attempt, it is like any other try and can be goaltended. However, most of the time the offensive player keeps his hand on the ball all the way to the rim, and thus can be blocked up until the release. |
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This is also an excellent reason why it is silly to talk about any specific number of steps when teaching or discussing traveling. |
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Go look up the definition of dunking in the NFHS books. Tell me what it says about the ring or imaginary cylinder above the ring. |
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Quoted from the first page -- I am answering using mostly NFHS rules
Offense: 1.How much bumping is allowed by the offense? Whether it's using shoulder or using their lower back (hip) to bump. Especially during post up & under the rim shots. If a defender has Legal Guarding Position and the offensive player pushes him or displaces him from his spot on the floor, I have an offensive foul. If a post player and his defender are wrestling for position down low, I am closely watching for a holding or pushing foul, but usually let them play a little. Again, it depends on whether a player was put at an illegal disadvantage. 2.During post up or box out, how much arm is allowed to prevent the defender from getting close? Are you only allowed to use the arm to "block" or can you outright use your body weight on the arm and "push"? If the offensive player is holding the defender away from him by using his arm, it is an offensive foul. If the defender is using his forearm in the offensive players back to push him or hold him where he is, it is a foul on the defender. Again, all depends on who is putting who at an illegal disadvantage. 3.What is "Up Down" rule, can you run the 2 steps in the mean time do fakes or you have to either pass or shoot once your arms in shooting form? I am not familiar with the "Up down" rule? Perhaps you mean travelling, which is picking up your pivot foot and putting it down again before releasing a pass or shot. If a player has ended his dribble, he must either pass or shoot, to dribble again is a "double-dribble" violation. 4.How much space must a screener give to make the screen legal? And must you hold both hands at your crouch when screening? What if you just position your arms normally like when you standstill, can you hold your hands to the chest if you see the defender charging into you to protect your body? A screener must give the defender ample time and distance to avoid the screen. While moving, the defender must be able to get out of the way, which depending on the speed of the defender, may be one or two steps. While the defender is stationary, I think the screen does not have to be set in consideration of time/distance. You may have to ask others or consult a rulebook for the requirements of a legal screen, but I think the arms should be within the body area, not sticking out to clip the screenee. 5a.If an offensive player runs in between a defender and ball handler is it consider a screen? Say if the player just "passing by". And would it be an illegal screen? This would be an illegal screen if the defender was prevented from legal movement. There is a type of screen called the "brush screen" which dangerously skirts the line between legal and illegal. Again, was the defender put at an illegal disadvantage by this offensive player running through? 5b.If a offensive player runs infront a shooter & defender to block the defender's path how quickly must he gain position before being called illegal screen should contact made? Again, judge by the time/distance given as well as the illegal advantage/disadvantage gained. 6.How does the 3second in the paint timer works? When does it reset? For example you post up in the paint, does it reset once you received the ball, or when you start the dribble, or when you catch the ball after dribble, does the counter still counts if you start doing pump fakes/pivot? When does the 3 second counter stop/reset while you are still in the paint? What if you end up passing the ball does the counter for that player gets reset? I learned this the hard way, so I am glad you are asking.3 seconds exists so that an offensive player cannot camp out in the paint. If a player posts up, has been in the lane for 2 seconds, and receives the ball, we allow him a little extra time to make a move to shoot. If the post player, for example, received the pass at 2 seconds, kicks it out to re-post, and does not leave the paint, you should call 3 seconds. Dribbling or passing does not factor into the 3 seconds equation. However, 3 seconds resets on any shot attempt. If you work youth ball, you will hear many parents yelling for 3 seconds when shots and putback attempts are being missed with about 8 players in the lane. Ignore them. 3 seconds also resets on a change of possession. Also, 3 seconds only applies when the ball has froncourt status with team control. 7.5 seconds back to basket, how close do you need to be for the counter to start? under what condition does the counter reset (i.e fake half spin)? does it count when you are not dribbling but back to basket? I believe this is only an NBA rule. Also known as the "Mark Jackson Rule". I don't know about this rule other than that. 10.Is it an offense if you throw a ball at the opponent with full force? Perhaps it is just a turnover. If done maliciously, consider an intentional, flagrant, or flagrant technical foul. Remember, we are expected to know the rules, but we are paid for our judgement. I once had a player throw the ball in anger at his own teammate. The ball ricocheted off the teammate and out of bounds. Turnover. That player was promptly subbed. Rebounding: 1.How much contact must be made before over the back foul applies? How to determine if a player is indeed infront? There is no such thing as an "over-the-back foul". That is simply a layman's term. We officials call it a "pushing foul". Was the player in front put at a disadvantage? Did the player behind push the front player so he could grab the rebound and attempt a putback. If yes, call the push. 2.How much arm/elbow can you use while boxing out for rebound? And how much lower back (hip) bump can you use? I think a proper box-out is mostly hip/butt. If a player backs out his man with his butt, I am unlikely to call a foul. Watch the arms though, there might be a hold on the player in front trying to prevent his man from running around him. 3.Are body contacts allowed during jumping for rebounding? Can you slap the opponents hand/arm while on air? Again, read the NFHS (depending on what rule set you use) section on "Incidental Contact". Again, consider the advantage/disadvantage gained on the play. If the ball is loose, and two players are going vertically to secure the rebound, I am probably not calling a foul if they high-five. 4.Does shooting foul apply for immediate airborne rebound putbacks (grabs rebound and shoots before landing)? If a player if fouled while shooting (gathered to some, act of shooting to others) it is a shooting foul. It is the same whether on a jump-shot or a putback attempt. 5.How much body contact is allowed for a chase for loose balls? Can i just charge towards the ball and knock the other chaser down if both are close? This thread has a good discussion of whether or not to call a foul during a loose ball. In the video the officials did not call any fouls before the held ball occurred, but it could be argued that a foul was committed by one playing jumping on/falling over the other player. That is all i can think of on top of my mind right now. Also can someone explain the positions for throwing in out of bounds ball? Check your officials manual. |
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However, after reading the rules a few times, I am still confused. Is a dunk attempt considered a try? Can you explain it to me? Also, I didn't see any wording about an "imaginary cylinder", can you point out where it says that? |
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Picture this play: A1 jumps and has the ball in his right hand. He raises the ball to a height of 12 feet. He is holding it two feet in front of the basket and now throws it downward with great force. The ball is headed towards the basket and will likely go in when a nearby defender jumps and bats the ball away. What call do you make? |
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Care to reconsider your initial answer? Javale McGee and Blake Griffin and good players to use for examples of such. |
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Look at the definition of a try. Is there anything which would eliminate a dunk? |
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Good lord, this thread is a cluster****.
Potato...I just want to point out that the answers you're going to be getting here mostly pertain to NFHS (National Federation of High School....aka high school) rules. That means that you will get an interpretation on say traveling that would make a play you see in an NBA game illegal, but perfectly legal in an NBA game (which will be the biggest confusion you'll see between the rule sets). I will answer your NBA questions as there will be more than enough people that will be adequately be able to answer your questions using NFHS and/or NCAA rules. I saw one question talking about 5 second back to basket. You're confusing a closely guarded count with the NBA only 5 second back to basket violation. Under NBA rules, an offensive player may not dribble with the ball below the free throw line extended with his back or side to his basket for longer than 5 seconds. It matters not how close or not the defense is. The 5 second count ends when the player ends his dribble, the player faces the basket, the player goes above the free throw line extended, or the defense deflects the ball away. |
Waiter, Separate Threads Please ...
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Where is the definition of this half step in the rulebook or casebook? This is why you do not use the term "steps" as there is no rules reference for that classification. It is all about the pivot foot and when it is established and what you can do with the pivot foot. Peace |
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And, if you don't jsut accept the answers and start "arguing" them (e.g. you ask "how many steps", you get an answer of "it's not steps it's the movement of the pivot foot" and then you ask again "but what about a half a step"), it's going to be even worse. The NCAA book is available on-line. It will answer most of the questions you ask. |
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Having seen that first post I haven't bothered to read any of the responses.
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This has spun out of control, in my opinion. I might go through and pull out some individual questions and create new threads; but don't hold your breath.
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