Who Is "They?"
 

Late this season, I'm working a ms boys game, and in pregame I notice a home player with identical bandaids on each ear. I call him over and ask, "what's under the bandaids?"

"Oh, it's just earrings."

"They have to come out if you're going to play."

"But they said I could play with them if I taped them over."

"Sorry, they were wrong."

Since I didn't care at the time who they were, I didn't bother to ask, but I do sort of wonder who "they" are.

Coaches? Some administrator?

Peace

"They" would be the coach that told the player to put tape over it and see if the officials notice and/or let them get away with it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

And I wonder what your response would have been had the player said, "nothing".

"They" is a close relative of "Idontknow".

I'm not checking under the bandaids.

Would you?

I think this coach knows better. My guess is it was the lady who took his money when he got them pierced over the weekend.

Yep. Under NYS girls' rules I have to. When I'm working under NFHS rules it's standard practice for us to check in my area.

"Holey Cow!"
 

I still think it's best for men to leave this life with the same number of holes in their bodies as God gave them when He brought them into this world. That precludes earrings and bullets.

Heck no. Dumb kid tells you he's wearing jewelry, we have to address it. He tells me there's nothing under there, I believe him.

Um ... really? What rule do they use to justify that? (Or is it a special NYS rule?)

There's ZERO chance I'm going to be asking to look under a bandaid of any sort. (In fact, I probably never get in Adam's situation as I would not have asked). They've got a bandaid, I'm assuming it's there for what it's supposed to be for - and there's no way I want to see some kid's open sore (much less make them possibly have to get another new bandaid when they mess up the first one from me asking to see.)

Yep. If we let that go, then we become "they".

Bad call.

Where does that stop? You checking for belly piercings too now? Or worse?

Don't be so over dramatic. Bandaids over the ears are a blatantly obvious covering for earrings. I'm gonna take care of it so the next officials who work this kids games can't say I was "they". You do what you want and look the other way.

U: So, what is underneath that bandaid? An earring?
P: No, sir. I had an earring last game, hidden under a bandaid - slid into home and it hooked on the catcher's earring hidden under a bandaid, and both of them ripped out. The bandaid is covering my ripped earlobe.
U: Oh, ok. Um - what about the other ear?
P: Uh..... same thing happened 2 games ago?

:)

We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Us (Walt Kelly) ...
 

As much as I hate to say it, sometimes they are an official.

Pants On Fire ...
 

Agree. If he ends up being a liar with a ripped ear lobe, then so be it. I did my job by asking about the bandaid, if the player tells me that there's not an earring under the bandaid, then I feel that I have fulfilled my duty as an official. Just my opinion, and the opinion of my local interpreter. As usual, when in Rome, check your local listings.

We've been told to check under band aids. Even if it is covered, if it gets ripped out, we may be libel since the rules state no jewelry, and not checking could mean it is our fault.

That's your argument? :rolleyes:

Like I said, you go ahead and look the other way. I guess that's how "they" roll down in Houston.

Exactly. The day I see someone tell me it is for anything else, then I'll consider the alternative. Until then, bandaids on the ears mean only one thing....the earrings need to come out or they do not play.

I'm asking the kid because every time I see band-aids where earrings go, it's earrings. Having a matching set makes it even more obvious, IMO. I see it about 3 or 4 times a year (normally in off-season youth ball), and I've never had it be anything but earrings.

I'm not checking under the band-aid (unless I'm instructed to do so by the assigner or state) because of what you state above. I have no desire require the player to open a bandaged wound and possibly need to get a new one.

All I see is a bandage, and if the player tells me it's not covering earrings, I'll go with that. I'd probably have a quick chat with the coach about the dangers of earrings on the court, but I'm not butting in beyond that.

I'll have to check with the MS assigners around here and see how they want that handled in the .0001 chance that a player tells me the band-aids are for something besides earrings.

Me: Hey, #21, what's under those bandaids on your ears?
21: Nothing. Just some sores.
Me: OK. Let's go double check that with your coach.

Me: Coach, your player here tells me there's nothing under his bandaids. No earrings or anything like that.
Coach: Come on, Steve. I told you not to try to pull that crap. Take them out right now.

OR...

Coach: Yeah, he got attacked by the family cat and got both ears clawed up.

Problem handled. No peeking where I don't want to peek...and the liability is now squarely on the Coach.

I reply to the complaint about the holes closing up in this fashion: "If they close up in the amount of time it takes to play a game, you need to get your money back."

We ask every game, "Coach, are your players properly equipped?"

They always answer "Yes".

No longer my problem if the player lies.

I guess we is they

So simple.

And yet, it took a page and a half to get to it.

Doesn't IDon'tKnow play second base. :p

MTD, Sr.

Page and a half? That's 150 posts at the maximum setting (I increased the posts allowed per page to 100 recently).

Had a high school player last summer ask if I was going to pay to get them repierced. "No, and I'm not going to pay to get your ears sewn back together, either."

Here are my marching orders from the NYS Girls Basketball Officials Association:

Ear Lobes Taped
If an official notices that a player has her ear lobes taped, the official will ask the player to remove the tape. If an earring is found, that player cannot enter the game until the player removes the earrings. If you believe that tape on any exposed area might be covering jewelry, then ask the player to remove it, to see if it is covering jewelry.

As far as boys go, I was taught from the time I started officiating in NYC (20+ years) to check if they had band-aids/tape on their ears, especially in summer leagues since they do it more often.

As for how they justify it, not my concern. They give me my certification and this is what they tell me to do, so I do it. It's no big issue for me and I'd just as well not deal with a kid having his/her earlobe ripped in half.

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, this may affect one of us, once in our career, in how we approach a situation.

No, that was a funny. Go buy a sense of humor.

Ding ding ding.

Fair enough... if those are your marching orders, it is what it is.

I do with without a directive and would not need one. But it is good they use one and are very clear. I think it is our obligation to find out when illegal items are being used, when they are visible to us. And the penalty is they cannot play until corrected, not like we are giving a T. I do not see the big deal and this is so rare because usually a coach takes care of this long before we have to address this issue. We often have to deal with it because a coach does not understand his or her responsibility and makes us the bad guy. And I just do not want to be the one that never asked when someone gets hurt and there is a clearly stated rule.

Peace

Confused. Does this happen rarely or often? :)

JRut, I feel the same. I'd do it even if the state didn't tell me. My mentors taught me to do it and they told me why: liability. Some here say "it's not my responsibility" or "we asked the coach if everyone is properly equipped" but if it came down to it, a good attorney could blow that out of the water.

If 90-95% of kids wore tape/band-aids on their earlobes then it wouldn't raise an eyebrow but that's not the case. Tape on earlobes isn't the norm. When something isn't the norm on the court don't we usually ask a few more questions?

I never said I wouldn't ask further, I'd go to the coach at that point to clarify. But I'm still not opening up a bandage.

If I see a player with tape on his ears, I would not ask him/her what is under the tape. I know what is under the tape. I just tell the potential player that if he or she wants to play in the game he or she will need to remove their earrings. Their choice. I do not care if they leave the earrings in or take them out and that's what I tell them if questioned. The decision is theirs.

This thread does make it abundantly clear who 'they' is.

As a comment on this... My daughter thought she would be okay to get her ears pierced during volleyball season because she thought the rule was different. Unfortunately for her, she got the same treatment and removed her earrings before a match in order to be allowed to play. For her the holes did close up in that short amount of time. She then waited until after basketball season was over and got them pierced again.

(Disclaimer: I have not read a lot of this thread, so my apologies if I am repeating someone.)

I find the whole jewelry thing rather ridiculous myself. Do the players not realize or just not care that the rule really is for their own protection?!

I was told a story the other day from someone who was actually present when an injury happened because of jewelry, and it was quite gruesome - not something I would ever care to experience or even witness.

I think it depends on where you live, seriously just like anything else.

Peace

How do you figure this?

"They" are those of you who would choose to simply ignore the tape over the ears. And claiming ignorance because you asked doesn't really let you off the hook. You know with 99.9% certainty that tape or bandaids over the ears means there are earrings underneath. Choosing to let it go makes you "they".

Wow.

Honestly, I kind of suspect that if you were on the court, and saw Andy or I or others who seem to agree, you'd sigh to yourselves, saying, "Great, I get to work with "that guy" again," and grit your teeth, and decide to just deal with it.

And Andy or I, seeing you or Hopguy, or some of the others, would say the same thing to ourselves.

And then when it the ball is finally in the air - we'd get along just fine and have a good game.

And if you were up here in my Association, and you allowed the kid to play with tape over their ears, I would move on to my next Varsity game while you went on to your next MS game.

I wouldn't allow a kid to play in my game with tape over the ears.

I would not go crazy at all about it either way. Such a minor thing, but a kid is not playing in one of my games with an earring in his ear when I see it.

It is like the shooting sleeve issue. There are people that go out of their way to make sure a kid is using it for medical purposes, even though in our state it is already assumed they are wearing them for that reason and we are not required to ask. But there are officials that ask anyway and then make them take it off when they do not get the right answer. I just find it funny, but that is on those officials. And it is not a liability to use those things, they just have to match some standard that was set by someone else. But as you said when the ball goes up it is not at the forefront of my mind and never will be until they change something.

Peace

And Vice Versa if we're going there - which we shouldn't have.

Unless A) a new rule is written that disallows tape/bandaids on the ears or B) my assignors reverse their opinions and tell us all to assume tape = earring until proven otherwise, I'm not going to invent a rule to keep them from wearing a bandaid wherever they happen to need one.

Perhaps this is one of those things that change in their manner of enforcement across the country. But I surely don't think your implication that I MUST work only low level games because the standards in my area differ from yours is an appropriate one... in fact I think it was uncalled for.

That's a bit over the top, but if that's what you think, I can live with that.

The fact is, I don't care either way.

Options:
1. Make him show you under the bandaids, then if he's telling the truth, at worst, he needs to replace the bandaid. Any wound too bad for a quick dressing on the sideline probably needs stitches anyway and he shouldn't be playing.

2. Talk to his coach after you talk to the kid. "Coach, #15 tells me the tape on his ears is for a bad scratch he got in a fight with his girlfriend. Is that true?"

3. Take the kid's word for it.

In the one game out of 2000 where the kid tells you the bandaids are for something besides earrings, I'll likely go with #2. If you think that makes me "they" in this context, <shrug>.

Oh, and what MD Longhorn said, too.

LOL YOU asked, did you not?

If someone has an earring, usually you can see the earring no matter what bandage is on their ear. Never seen an earring where the back of the earring was not easily seen standing next to that person.

Peace

Sure did, and I thought it was where he was heading. Have to admit I didn't expect you to agree with him. :D

Besides, in the context of the kid, it's pretty obvious that "they" were not officials telling him to hide it under a band-aid.

To your credit, your scenario was slightly different than what I'm arguing about - your kid had earrings on display and wanted to put tape over them and "they" said it was ok. That's probably a different "they". I just think we become part of the problem when we look the other way. For what it's worth, I don't feel the same about the arm sleeves and I've stopped caring about headband color as well. But jewelry seems to make sense as a safety issue and I just won't allow it.

Neither will I, I think we only disagree on how far we'll take the effort to spot the jewelry. Not significantly, I don't think.

As Rut noted, the odds of actual jewelry staying hidden are pretty slim (this particular kid had the backs of the ears covered as well, so a simple "nothing" wouldn't have worked well), and I know what the back of an earring looks like.

If I see a band aid on anyones ear, I am assuming it is covering an ear ring and asking them about it. Jewelry isn't allowed. Common sense should tell you that it is covering an ear ring. If it isn't they just put a new band aid on. The time and trouble it takes to look and fix is worth not having to deal with a kid getting their ear ripped open because we allowed them to play with jewelry.

Finger Licking Good ...
 

Once, when I was a lot younger, I was playing basketball on an outdoor playground court while I was wearing my wedding band. I went up for a rebound and got the ring caught in the metal chain net, and hung there for a fraction of a second, long enough for the ring to cut into my finger almost down to the bone. I still have the scar today.

Did I learn my lesson? Apparently not.

Way back before I retired from teaching, and before I won my in independence with a divorce decree, I was passing the gymnasium on the way out of the school and noticed the boys team shooting around. I decided to show off and take a few shots with the guys, while I was wearing my wedding band. I was only half paying attention when one of my students passed me the ball and caught the pass with my fingers extended, which jammed the fingers. I woke up the next morning with a very swollen ring finger. I showed the injury to the school nurse as soon as I got to school. The wedding band was acting like tourniquet, cutting off circulation to the finger, and because of the swelling, we couldn't get the ring off. We were on our way to the metal shop to get the ring cut off, but decided to stop by the cafeteria kitchen first. Luckily, a little butter on my finger helped to get the ring off.

What's that expression? "Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, shame on me".

The N Word ...
 

There's liability, and there's negligence. If I don't notice the bandaid, I'm probably negligent. If I notice the bandaid and don't address it, I'm negligent. If I notice the bandaid, ask the player about it, am lied to, and have the coach confirm that his players are legally equipped, I don't believe that I'm negligent, but I'm probably still going to have to deal with the bother of lawyers, courts, IAABO insurance, NFHS insurance, etc.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television.

Bottom line, I'm addressing the issue, but I'm not asking a player to remove a bandaid. But, as usual, when in Rome, check your local listings.

We Have Rules Against Tape ???
 

Even if there wasn't an earing under the tape?

You do not ask them to remove them in the first place, you just tell them they cannot play with them if on their body.

Peace

Readng Is Fundamental ...
 

Bandaids?

Note: I think that I agree with you, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what I'm agreeing to.

Yes reading is fundamental.
 

You made the comment that you do not ask them to take off jewelry. That should go without saying.

Peace

I'm in the process of becoming one, and I am not quite sure I would agree with this. However if it was, there would be massive amount of contributory negligence on the part of others that would help you.

That's My Story And I'm Sticking To It ...
 

That's 100% correct, I've made that statement many, many times on the Forum, but did I make it in this thread?

In any case, I think that we agree. Officials should not ask players to remove illegal equipment, we should tell players that they can't play with illegal equipment.

Where's Judge Judy When You Need Her ???
 

Interesting. Can you expound upon this?

If necessary, will you represent me? If so, please send the bill to Mark Padgett, he lives somewhere in Oregon. He's already got my account numbers, PIN's etc.

I don't disagree with this.

My only point of disagreement is how much I'm going to press the issue. I might even ask him to show me, but if a player was to make the claim that he was told by his doctor to not remove the bandage, I'm not pushing it any further.

Is that extreme? Sure, but frankly, I think this issue doesn't even get debatable until we get to the sasquatch situations.

I get the point of this, but I don't worry about the semantics here. It seems a lot like the whole "base line / end line" discussion, or a certain long time member's obsession with whether coaches "call" or "request" timeouts. The next time a player sits out the game rather than take out his earrings will be the first time.

Softball - Belly Piercing
 

Working a softball game a few year ago...highly conteste game but the one coach was clueless. He calls time and comes out to tell me that the batter from the other team had her navel pierced. I said coach I can't see that nor am I interested in looking... he couldn't believe that I wouldn't eject player.


Was by far strangest request from a coach I ever had....

Just consider bandaids on the ears as jewelry. Problem solved! :eek:

As far as I know, what is or is not jewelry is not defined anywhere.

Usually in my experience the coach thanks us for telling his player the rule. Usually not much of an issue as I said because the rule is well known.

Peace

Philosophical Question ...
 

If a bandaid falls in the forest, and there are no officials around ...

BillyMac's Got A Better Idea ...
 

Better yet, just consider ears to be jewelry, and make exceptions for medical, or religious reasons. Removing an ear has to be considered to be a medical problem, or there has to be some Commandment being broken?

No Definition Needed ...
 

The Supreme Court has already ruled on this: "I know it when I see it. (Justice Potter Stewart)

If you don't concur with him, you can always go to Noah Webster's definition.

If they prove to me there's no earring under the tape, then of course they can play with tape over their ears. Geez - is it really necessary to be so literal? You know what I meant. It won't be long before I put you back on my ignore list, I suspect...

Surprized No One Has Said "Don't Be a Plumber" on This Yet
 

Disclaimer: I am a plumber but to not officiate or enforce the rules like one.

Pants On Fire ...
 

Again, I expect officials to do what is the expected standard in their little corner of their state, however.

The player tells you he isn't wearing an erring. The coach tells you that all his players are legally equipped. Yet you still insist that the player pull off his tape. You have just, in essence, accused both the player, and his coach, of being liars, and that's not the way I want my game to go before we've even tossed up the jump ball.

Let's say that after questioning both the player, and the coach, about the tape, the official still insists that the player pull off the tape, and there's no earing, just a cut. Now the official has just, in essence, accused two people of being liars, incorrectly, for no reason. Again, not the way I want to start my game.

Or, let's say that after questioning both the player, and the coach, about the tape, the official still insists that the player pull off the tape, and there is an earing, proving that both the player, and the coach, are, indeed, liars. They've been exposed for what they really are, liars, and also, they're embarrassed liars. Again, not the way I want to start my game.

Again, if asking players to remove tape is the excepted standard in an association, then that's the way you have to do it. I have no problem with that.

What a bunch of nonsense. I am thanking my lucky stars I don't work in your little corner.

Liar, Liar ...
 

Although I don't consider this (below) nonsense, I do admit that it's pretty far fetched:

This (below), however, is not nonsense, its what's really going to happen:

And exactly what part of this (below) is nonsense?

People don't take kindly to being accused of as being liars here in New England. And we don't accuse people of being liars, unless we're 100% certain that they really are, or have shown a propensity of lying in the past. Players may lie, they're just kids, but coaches around here are usually pretty ethical educators.

Tonight I had a similar situation to the one that started this thread. Player A1 had earrings on, I told the coach he can't play with them on. Coach says "oh he just got them and he'll just tape over them". I didn't respond but just waited and a few seconds later he was telling his player to take them out. I learned silence can be powerful in the right situation. I was prepared to come back with "well the holes will not close up that fast", but didn't need to say anything. I drew the line and the coach just needed some time to realize it. Thanks Forum!