joe forte camp
 

anyone have any good advice about Joe Forte camp?

Looking to make the roster and would like some tips.

I have strong mechanics, great official look, know the rules, run hard, see the angles, move to improve, and communication with fellow officials! I am 27 and call high level varsity basketball in NC. just looking for tips on his camp. Thanks

Plan on going next year as well. Rarely does anyone get picked up on the first go-around...

Good luck

Can I go to you're camp? :D

I maybe haven't been around here long enough to get away with saying this, but I will say it anyway. Maybe your mechanics aren't quite as strong as you think they are. Maybe you don't know the rules quite as much as you can. Maybe you could see the angles a little bit better than you do. Maybe your communication with your partners isn't as good as it could be. If you go to a camp as a 27 year old HS varsity official who acts like you can't be taught anything, it might not go over well. I know this isn't a teaching camp, but you need to be able to receive feedback and not think you are the perfect official. Having never met you, maybe you are the perfect official and don't need to be taught anything.

Heck far...sounds like Joe should be coming to see you, not the other way around. :)

Oh great, guys. Just go ahead and shoot him down.

Sometimes this forum becomes a wise a$$ reply forum.
Kid was just saying that he's not green, You smart a$$es if you dont have any constructive things to say, keep your pie holes shut.

Then just ask "what does Joe Forte expect and like?" without all the self-promotion.

And you didn't have anything constructive to say so why are you posting? He doesn't need you coming to his rescue. :rolleyes:

Don't listen to them...
 

The fact that your on this forum asking questions and looking to attend camp shows your hungry to learn more, develop your strengths and become a better official. Having confidence isn't going to hurt you out there, in fact, its crucial for success.

I'm sorry that you reached out to this "experienced, mature, veteran" group of officials and all most of them could do is shoot you down.

Good luck to you.

"There's a fine line between confidence and cockiness."
The young lad seemed merely confident, to me, not cocky. Heck, I could say the same thing about myself, but usually just let others say it for me. :)

I was once you.....
 

I remember when I was your age and attending Fred Barakat's camps ( IMO the best in the country). I thought I had all of those things. But what Ididn't have was the following ( and I will relate this to your area). I hadn't worked the Carolinas Conference final / hadn't been to the DII Regional /.

What is going to happen when you call what you think is a foul in front of Eades or Ayres ????

There are about one million examples of things you haven't done or don't know about yet (and you will) that also make up the equation as to whether you ready to work or not in the BS.

For whatever it is worth and this is debatable, if you look like a Joe Forte guy/
NBA ref, how will it play when you try to get in other leagues that don't have such an "NBA Philosophy".....

BNR - your thoughts would be appreciated. I know down there you see the difference between MEAC / BS mentality .......

Most definitely is a difference. The 2 supervisors are almost diametrically opposed as to what they look for in hiring a new official on staff. Of course some officials are so good they can transcend the different tastes.

I'm assuming BS means Big South? Do they actually use that acronym?

I wasn't trying to shoot him down. I was just telling him the same things that I have to tell myself from time to time. I find it helps to try to remember that I am not nearly as good as I think I am, nor am I as bad as I think I am when I screw up.

This.

Update
 

Just an update to you guys! I went to the camp , learned and shined! Receive an invite to his Orlando camp in July aau nationals! So thanks to the good feedback I received and to the negative well you just sound like a angry what if official!!

Forgive me, but maybe you should be around longer than 2 posts before you worry about what others say to you. I did not recall anyone telling you something that was out of line or not good advice. Good luck at the camp, but that does not mean anything. Many of us have been invited to stuff and it did not mean much of anything but more money out of your pocket.

Peace

You think that was negative?

Interesting.

Some of us work in conferences that pay more than the Big South and Conference Carolinas. Some of us know officials who have chosen not to work for Joe Forte. Some of us know officials who get a lot of games from Joe Forte. Some of us have been to his camps and been picked up. Some of us have been to his camps and not picked up.

All that is irrelevant to the tone of your original post.

Here's my advice…

Stop there.

^^^^ Leave that part out.

My .02....

I did not read his initial post as cocky. He probably just didn't want a reply like:

"Have strong mechanics, have a great official look, know the rules, run hard, see the angles, move to improve, and communicate with fellow officials!"

:)

Well, Forte doesn't care about running hard, but he does care about having a great look. The #1 thing he cares about is getting plays right.

Not many college officials on this site reveal which conferences they work in, so any specific answers as they applied to working for Joe Forte probably weren't going to be very forthcoming. (I don't work for Forte)

This is a question that common sense tells you should have been asked in his local area to officials who already work in the BS and/or CC, not a bunch of anonymous folks on a message board.

BNF - He does care about running hard. I believe running hard and hustling to get an angle to see the play to make a decision (call or no call) can be the same or two different things. False hustle and running just to run don't help any of us.

Regarding the official attending Orlando. Did you go to Suwanee back in May to the Gibbons camp? If so who evaluated you and what feedback did you receive. That will help you decide what you need to work on when you attend the STP in Orlando. It will also help me help you in making recommendations. I would also recommend you inform you clinicians prior to each game the 1 or 2 things you intend to work on that game so they can take note and provide feedback

Be genuine, staff can see right through the campers that talk just to talk. Big turn off.

also be sure to correct your supervisors. They like that. Trust me :rolleyes:


(But really I've had conflicting advice a few times. Just roll with it and learn.
And become cocky and confident. Like many of the NBA refs:p

Sugar And Spice ...
 

Do not, I repeat, do not roll your eyes, and under no circumstances, and I mean no circumstances, state, "Whatever", at the same time. I've got two daughters so I'm used to it. Your supervisors may not be, and may react in a negative manner.

feedback, at suwanee
 

yes i did go to the gibbons camp in may. the first two days I worked for 3 older gentleman that eye out talent for his staff, and 1 NBA offcial. The last day I worked in front of Joe, and heater and two more on his staff for the semi finals for the 17 age group and a Joe did the feedback for that game. any feed back from you will be appreciated

glad you saw what i was saying in the post. not cocky but confident. I feel you need that at a higher level of officiating. thanks and i Appreciate all feedback and work on things I am told. not just a hard headed youngster thinking he knows everything!

Nothing was out of line that they said. I think some just misunderstood me as thinking i was cocky. I was simply saying im not GREEN. your right it might not mean anything but when 15 officials got invited from previous suwanee camp out of 100 officials there, it give you hope and determination to work hard on the feedback you receive so I can make the roster. I appreciate all feed back at every level and not cocky. I am how ever confident with my officiating and I carry that on the court. I think it is something that is needed at higher levels of officiating. Thanks

I don't know you... I only know you by what you write. But you don't come across as confident, you come across as cocky. Perhaps this might help:

Confidence is an internal thing more than an external thing.
Cockiness is an external thing more than an internal thing.

Confidence is often seen in your actions, and your reactions.
Cockiness is often seen in your words.
And if you're truly confident, and not cocky, you don't need those words.

Your ending statement in your first post, no matter how you try to wrap it up, comes across as 100% cockiness, not confidence.

perhaps I am a little bit of both! My original post was sent out asking about a certain camp mainly looking for guys who have attended. I was simply stating things so they wouldnt say run hard, have strong mechanics, etc. I was just saying im not GREEN. You are right, I think I do carry a bit of both.

Well I know nothing about the camp you are talking about at all. I have never attended that camp or have to attend such a camp to advance in my area. But I have heard about these kinds of camps that people have attended where they are invited to attend some other camp, only to find it was a way for the camp director to have the campers pay more money and work some ball that might not lead to anything. Not saying that is the case here, I just do not know. But my point is you really need to calm down a little as you have no idea who here has been through that process. Meaning they know more about that camp or how these decisions are made and what they lead to then you do. It is great that you are not GREEN and accomplished something, but no one was ripping you. They were just telling you to slow your role a little.

And you can have all the confidence in the world and that does not mean you will get hired either. Why would they hire you instead of someone else? There are a lot of reasons and confidence is not likely going to be the main factor. A lot will be your location, need for someone new, who is pushing you and maybe your fitness. And some of those things are out of your control all together.

Peace

Well put. Thanks

Billy,

First I would like to know if that is your first name. I don't need to know anymore.

Secondly, The ORL camp will have current staff members from the BS and CC as campers as they continue to develop their ability and leadership skills in an effort to progress to crew chiefs and in an effort to referee with a crew chief mentality, even though they may be listed as a R1 or R2 and not the CC in a given game.

SOME POINTS

If I were you I would approach each game with my point above. Referee with a CC mentality. That does not mean being arrogant (I am not saying you are). It means:

1) taking care of your primary
2) get 100% obvious calls out of your primary
3) when you make calls out of your primary, let the cadence of your whistle be a bit delayed to allow your partner who has the primary play to process the play as he may be letting the play start, develop, and finish.
NOTE - When you go into your secondary, make sure it is high certainty, it helps the game and you have good whistle cadence. "Throw a Strike". You want nothing on the corners when you go into your secondary.
4) Don't blow a whistle just to blow, and by this I mean so many times I see an official reffing very well and he as had zero whistles. This means he has had great no calls, has not reached on marginal calls, and has not interjected himself into the game. If you have gone for 5 minutes with a foul, do not feel anxious.
5) Reffing with a CC mentality means being a good partner, applying rules correctly, knowing the rules in unusual situations, and taking responsibility when you know you are right
6) Reffing with a CC mentality does not mean being overbearing, boisterous or arrogant, it means making the team better, allowing your partners to officiate, and stepping up when it is called for.

CONTINUED...
7) your whistles on plays going to the basket should sound at the finish of the play, not at the beginning or while the play is developing
8) your whistles on the perimeter will sound more at the beginning and development of the play
9) Concentrate on the point of contact on one-on-one matchups (the point of contact is what part will cause you problems).


BIG ISSUES OF ADVANCEMENT IS HOW YOU MANAGE CONFLICT ETC- In ORL, some of these games have conflict naturally, and some ref's calls cause conflict, just like any game during the season.
10) Be able to communicate and resolve conflict (whether it is a quick discussion with a coach, an answer using basketball terminology, or a techincal foul
NOTE AS JUST AN EXAMPLE: An answer using basketaball terminology would be
COACH: Ref, that call was way too late.
REF: Coach I understand, but I blew my whistle when the play finished
OR
REF: Coach I understand, but If I blew the whistle at the start of the play, it would have been a marginal whistle, when I blew at the end of the play it was a foul.
You can say that in 5 seconds as you move to report the foul or as you move after you reported the foul....yada yada yada....., that requires feel and you need to project confidence and approachability without being arrogant
11) Conflict is inevitable, Combat is optional. The situation + your attitude/action = outcome (That is a conflict mgt equation)
12) Focus on "getting it right" over "being right"
13) Don't "react",..... reflect and respond.
14) Manage your own feelings first, then others
15) Attack the problem, not the person
16) Practice assertive and cooperative communication
17) When dealing with a coach, remember, if you understand "him", better than he understands "himself", then you can guide the conversation

OTHER THINGS
18) Referee to your experience - that means recognize your experience level, the positions you have been in, and make sure you ref at a minimum to that level, while also trying to recognizing areas you can advance your level within the game - pick your spots (you can still ref with a CC Chief mentality within your level of experience)
19) On rebound plays, ref with the possession/consequence theory to avoid marginal fouls on players, especially starting big guys
20) On rebounding fouls, there are "clean up" fouls, where the constant reach in causing contact by the new defender will result in a reaction by the offensive player with the ball. Get the first foul to clean that up
21) On post play remember, "Man then ball" is a foul. "Ball then Man" may not be a foul...just see the whole play and don't react

Enter each game with a plan (what are you working on)
Enter each possession with a plan (know what is happening in the game)
Enter each rotation with a plan (know what is happening in that clock period)

I COULD GO ON FOR 7 MORE DAYS. THAT IS PROBABLY WAY TOO MUCH, but take what you want or what you feel is relevant.

I will see you down there and try to pick you out of the crowd. I will find you and you may not even know it :) Good luck.

Nice PB. I was thinking about going to Charlotte in a couple weeks but I think you just posted $190 worth of good information. :D

Wow! Some stuff I can use now, some stuff I hope I can use as I progress! Great post.

Peachbasket......Great job !!!!!
 

That may be the best post I have ever read on this site......each point is accurate and well explained. Your post is a recipe for success. I will be in Orlando after Forte's camp for another camp and will apply many of these concepts....

Thanks again !!!!!!!!

Maybe PB is JH or JL .......:D:D Just mail PB that check!!!!!

Wow! Best advice ever received! Thank you
 

Yes, my name is William (Billy) Raleigh,NC. I would would like to start by saying this is the best advice I have ever received!! Hands down! I have read over this post numerous times since reading it, and posted to my phone notes! This is Priceless information that I feel will give me the push/edge I need to be the best CC or R1, R2 in my career. I feel like you may have seen me down in Atlanta. I am Really excited for Orlando and Happy I received the invite. Atlanta was by far the best camp I have been to, and learned alot from the staff.I look forward to possibly speaking with you in orlando, and if not just appreciate the fact that you will pick me out the crowd!! Thanks Again and striving to be part of the BS and CC!

All excellent, but these nuggets are especially helpful ... and should be mandatory discussion/teaching at camps.

Lol. I'm not JH or JL. Glad that some of you felt that the post could help. Taking a few principles and applying them little by little will amount to a big change / improvement over a short period of time.

I think we all try to implement too many things at once and that can sometimes paralyze our progression.