Foul without contact?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jay R

Subsequent to Billy Mac's post. Someone grabs a jersey to hold an opponent. Can't call that a personal foul. No contact with the body.

Every player has their own uniform/equipment. The ball belongs to everyone. But nice try though.

[VaTerp]

I had a play earlier this year, which I believe I posted in a similar thread:

A2 goes up for a rebound with B2 in front of him. A2 lands and then proceeds to extend the ball with both hands and create enough contact to displace B2 and knock him to the floor.

I called a TC foul and signaled a push though what I was really calling was a PC. Nobody in the gym said a word and many probably assumed I was calling the "over the back" foul that we all know and love.

I felt I needed to get something here and I would make the call again. A2 gained an advantage not intended by the rules when he created contact that displaced B2 and moved him off of his entitled spot on the floor. I didnt view it as intentional or flagrant but as illegal. Obviously many here think this is not supported by rule but I've been down that road before and feel comfortable with the call and, as I stated, would make it again in a similar situation.

As for the play in the OP I'm having a hard time imagining a situation where the offensive player lands and ONLY makes contact with the ball and that contact being enough to displace the defender facing them and make them fall to the floor. But if it happens as I'm reading it I'm likely no-calling it as the defender would seem to have ample opportunity to make a play on the ball.

ETA- Just to clarify on the play where I had a whistle A2 extended the ball and shoved B2 in the back.

[Adam]

A1 driving the lane, collects the ball and jumps off of one foot for a jump stop. B1 has been in position since Friday, and uses his hands to protect his future children from the imminent collision. A1 sees he's about to commit a foul, so uses the ball to push B1 out of the way as A1 lands where B1 was previously standing.

I'm calling this a PC, as I'm certain this isn't a nit the local powers want picked.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Adam

A1 driving the lane, collects the ball and jumps off of one foot for a jump stop. B1 has been in position since Friday, and uses his hands to protect his future children from the imminent collision. A1 sees he's about to commit a foul, so uses the ball to push B1 out of the way as A1 lands where B1 was previously standing.

I'm calling this a PC, as I'm certain this isn't a nit the local powers want picked.

I guess it's not as hard to imagine as I stated in my post above.

I'm calling this a PC too and not thinking twice about it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I guess it's not as hard to imagine as I stated in my post above.

I'm calling this a PC too and not thinking twice about it.

Guess if we ever work a state tourney game together the "R" gets to make the final decision in the pre-game.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Guess if we ever work a state tourney game together the "R" gets to make the final decision in the pre-game.

Lol. If that ever happens I will be sure to bring up random stuff from this board during the pre-game. Our 3rd will be looking at us like .......

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

A1 driving the lane, collects the ball and jumps off of one foot for a jump stop. B1 has been in position since Friday, and uses his hands to protect his future children from the imminent collision. A1 sees he's about to commit a foul, so uses the ball to push B1 out of the way as A1 lands where B1 was previously standing.

I'm calling this a PC, as I'm certain this isn't a nit the local powers want picked.

Exactly my position. But your explanation was better.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Every player has their own uniform/equipment. The ball belongs to everyone.

[BillyMac]

Note: This discussion does have some merit. It's the difference between no free throws for a player control foul, or two free throws taken by the best free throw shooter on the team for a technical foul.

[parrot]

Well I'm, glad I could stir up some trouble with my first thread.

For those finding it hard to believe that the play could have occurred the way I described, with our player being dislodged due to contact only with the ball, here is a picture of the two players involved in the play.

[parrot]

And interestingly, here's the same defender involved in a remarkably similar play in another game in the tourney. It kinda of shows how it went down, though I felt like the other girl thrust the ball out much more. There was visible space between them. I believe this one was called PC.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by parrot

And interestingly, here's the same defender involved in a remarkably similar play in another game in the tourney. It kinda of shows how it went down, though I felt like the other girl thrust the ball out much more. There was visible space between them. I believe this one was called PC.

Well, in this pic, I see at least 3 different points of body contact.

[JRutledge]

You cannot officiate with a picture, but I see a lot more contact than with just the ball in these pictures.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You cannot officiate with a picture, but I see a lot more contact than with just the ball in these pictures.

Peace

What do you mean? I'm the best damned official in the world when watching from the stands or on TV.

[parrot]

That's not the play. I never suggested that there is no contact in that picture, just that it was a play that unfolded in a similar fashion with her defensive positioning and with the bigger girl with the ball out in front of her.