2013 IHSA 2A Boys' Final...Plays to Consider
 

I strung together eight plays (yeah, I know, but they move quickly) from the first half of the IL game where the official was pushed. Seven were in the first quarter. All were no-calls, though in some cases there was a foul called later in the possession. Some notes from me...

Play #4: This was the first of six no-calls in the game (my count) on block/charge situations involving airborne shooters where the contact didn't appear to be incidental.

Play #5: Took place 0:11 of game time after Blue #55 received a T.

Play #8: The only play from the 2nd quarter. It happened 1:11 of game time before White #4's ejection.

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That's one physical game.

That post play on #2 is unreal.

I'm not a "big timer" and don't officiate at this level. But, I do know my evaluators probably wouldn't take too kindly for letting a lot of this go without a call.

2 and 5 .....lawdy (JR)

This looks like it would evolve into a WWE match by the 4th quarter...not surprised there were out-of-control players by the end of the game.

Awesome ......
 

Thanks for putting these up......

1 - Easy illegal screen

2 - Defense initially pushes guy off block.....however play did settle (a bit) and basket was scored...however have no problem with foul on defender

3 - Can't tell was there a backcourt ,????defense knock away then offense first touch last touch....

4 - Block ( not because of arc) player with ball in air, defender sledes under

Get back with other four later.......

JMF - Dude great job !!!

Thanks

Excellent video clips, JMF. Thanks for posting.

I've got "block" (defender still trying to gain LGP after shooters left the floor) on the two block/charge scenarios.

The moving screens were egregious, as well.

Agree with the comments made about the rough post play.

#1. Maybe illegal technically, but no advantage.

#2. Aggressive, but even. Doesn't have to be a foul.

#3. Don't see anything there.

#4. Called a "push" but it was a block....wrong signal but correct foul.

#5. Aggressive and the offense gains an advantage when he sweeps the defender to the floor...needs a foul.

#6. Clear charge. Two bodies down...needs to be called.

#7. No call...Screen was too late to matter relative to the shot. No advantage.

#8. Given what they had been allowing, this was trivial. Noting that the foul actually called was early. Just after the whistle, there was contact that was more deserving of a foul.

The block/charge play #6 seemed like the worst no-call of the group. Not sure how that isn't picked up by someone (both the L and the C were in position to make that call it seems).

I can at least see passing on a couple (#1 (illegal screen), #2 (post play), and #7 (illegal screen) didn't result in a huge advantage.

The post play in #2 is probably the toughest call since its a call you want to make to keep the game from getting too rough, but I'm not sure which side to call it on. Both Offense and Defense are doing their fair share of body checking and fighting for position.

How about going with a double foul here?

I took notes and was going to write up my own observations, but I'm lazy and they match Cameron's exactly.

#5 - There appeared to be a bit of a hold by the defense early, but it wasn't something that was enough to draw a whistle.

The only plays where I would've hoped for something different are 5 (the sweep that put the defender on the floor should've been called) and 6 (it's a charge).

Big boy basketball -- I *love* it.

No chance.

I think they're jockeying for position and both players are well under control. You notice how well the defender respects the fact that the opponent has the ball?

I'm not a fan of a double foul in general -- any of the ones I've called (and I called my first one in years this season) are usually because I know I've missed the first one and can't just penalize the response and be fair about it.

Believe he was calling a push on the put back attempt by the offensive player...not on the block/charge play. Right signal, different foul.

#3 is clearly a backcourt violation

Play #1: Illegal screen but A1 had already beaten B1 so I can see letting that go

Play #2: If I'm callng anything early is would be for defender pushing offensive player up to free throw line. Once I miss that I'm letting the play finish out.

Play #3: Really don't see much, no-call from what I can see.

Play #4: Need a block call on initial shot. Then we call a touch foul on the tap. :confused:

Play #5: I've seen rougher post play. Probably would get the TC foul but B1 fell more from the tangled legs than the arm sweep.

Play #6: I've seen this no-called in NCAA games so I wouldn't be too harsh on the officials for this one. Yes, it was a PC, but by the time a whistle probably would have come you have a defensive rebound and a run out. Not egregious IMO.

Play #7: By the time the screen becomes illegal A1 has the ball so C is now officiating on-ball and there is nobody with a good view of the screen. Maybe one of those plays the coach designs knowing there will only be one official strong-side. ;)

Play #8: I probably would have got that first hand-check in the BC.

The worst sportsmanship I have ever witnessed during the ceremonies. The head coach took his 2nd place metal and threw it. He also confronted a fan in the stands after the game. Simpy awful because his kids acted the same way and no-showed for trophy ceremony

I took mental notes and "beamed them" to Camron to transcribe. Thanks, Camron.

How about the lottery numbers? Stocks to buy? Anything?

#1--Not even close. Bad screen but not something I would call when the defender goes around the screen.

#2--Probably would have called something or addressed this issue for sure. Both players were going at it pretty hard.

3--Not a very good angle and it appears the right player got the ball. I can live with a no call in that game.

4--Looks like a block all the way, but the official gave another signal or called something on someone different. Not sure what the Lead was watching there.

5--I had less problem with that sequence than the first one. It looks like both players moved around each other more than anything. The Lead had a better angle and passed on this, so I can live with that. Not unusual when you have big and physical players in the post in my experience.

6--Something should have been called there.

7--Agreed, illegal screen.

8--No problem with a handchecking foul here.

Peace

On #2 I really can't see coming away with nothing. Someone did something illegal during that sequence and my first observation was the defender started the ball rolling once he started moving A2 up the lane. Putting a whistle on that can prevent headaches as the game moves on. Also, and this is because I watched the whole game, Blue #55 crossed the border from aggressive to rough a few times early on. He's one of those players where the antenna should be up...something to talk about in the pregame or during a time out. Kids who don't have scoring responsibilities always put me on alert.

#3 was of interest because the dribbler was displaced, there was no call...and then there's a missed backcourt violation as a result.

In the first block/charge the foul was called on the contact after the rebound not the initial drive. That's one where the C would probably want to get the crash if he had to do it again.

I know #6 was iffy. That's why I added the context. It was less than 0:15 of game time after Blue 55 picked up a T. Now the kid has two personals, he's not being taken out, he's already had one pretty aggressive sequence in the post and he's at it again. Granted, there was eventually a whistle on the possession against him but if my antenna are up I'm already thinking he and whoever he gets involved with in the post aren't getting a whole lot of rope.

On #7 positioning had a lot to do with it. It's possible the C could have gotten it with a glance at the next action area since the ball wasn't being pressured but that would've been rough and the L was blocked out. The T could've saved things but take a good look: he's not even on the screen until the shot is taken. That means he was near the division line - another 20 feet away - with only two kids in front of him. Getting that play would've helped the game because White went on to set a few more iffy screens. You get a kid for setting up like a football lineman early and the issue goes away.

I think #8 shows the importance of getting the first call. The little nonsense after the whistle eventually blows may not happen if the first act is called. Plus, it didn't appear as though what was eventually called was really a foul.

Take your pick on two..... a smorgasburg of fouls all within 3-4 seconds. Call something. I'm convinced non calls like this only escalated the problems.

This is where you have to read the players and figure out what they're comfortable with. As long as they're both on the same page, you really don't have to have a foul. You can, and it wouldn't be wrong, but it can be passed on just the same. If you're going to pass on it as I suggest is possible, you just have to keep your eye on it to see if either one steps it up and takes it too far.

I can only see it heading in one direction. I see your point on each one individually...but collectively, I understand why this one went in the tank. Even if the players seemed OK and played it through on the same level, one of the coaches would likely use the non-calls to beat ya over the head.

Agreed. I can see doing that on "minor" contact that large players can get through. Play #2 isn't minor. Neither were the two block/charges or, IMO, play #7 (the illegal screen on White). If this or any crew establishes a "we'll let you play through stuff but you're also going to play basketball" mindset then players will adjust. The knuckleheads who don't will sit and having them on the sidelines will help the game.

My feeling was whistles on even half these plays changes the tone of the game.

I don't think it's minor, but I don't think it's really that bad.

Of course I'm not putting it in context with the rest of the action -- I'm just looking at it as an isolated play. You can certainly get something, but I don't think it's over the top.

Shrug.

Agreed. This is the 1st quarter. If this type of thing had been cleaned up early, further problems could have been avoided later by consistently calling this.

I agree and have the following:
2) defender uses the knee to drive the offense 6 ft up the lane
4) i can live with no call, contact was after release and getting foot on floor
6) looks very similar to 2), but this is more Through than To
8) once the offense swipes at the defense, that is likely because the offense cannot move freely as a result of the defense impeding. If I no call it, the defender becomes highly suspect over the next few minutes.

Your point is a good one.

The guys that called the Wisconsin D1 championship called 10 fouls in the first quarter. Good, appropriate fouls. The game never got close to spiraling the way this one did.

These responses most closely match my thoughts.

Well alllllrighty then!!!
 

:eek: :D

Peace

Oh my.

Isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse? :eek:

We are in the final days my friend. ;)

Peace

Yeah, it shocked me too.
It appears that there is more than one route to the destination as we both end up making similar decisions no matter how we get there.
Also, this game didn't look all that physical to me and it wouldn't surprise me if Rut felt the same way.

I actually felt there were a lot of calls that should not have been made at all. So we agree once again. I better stop now before something else changes. ;)

Peace

On #7, which is an illegal screen, lead is stuck in mud and could have closed down at least and maybe picked it up, as C was wrapped up in 3 attempt and had only eyes for shooter.

A fellow official called me today after watching all of this an lamented these poor guys have worked their whole career to get this far and now have this game as a lasting memory.......ouch.

Middle East peace?

#1- In real time I'm definitely passing here. Minimal contact and no advantage gained.

#2- I would think I would get a push on the D around FTLE. But offensive player also was moving himself up the lane.

#3- I have a legal play by the defender in getting the tip, incidental contact while the ball is loose, then a backcourt violation.

#4- Obvious block. Have to let offensive player land.

#5- Really not that all that physical. The defender looks like he falls on his own and not as a result of the offense. Good call on the shot.

#6- Need to get this PC foul.

#7- Looks much worse in slow mo. I'm passing here as defender does not really try to get around until it's way too late to contest shot. No advantage.

#8- I can see a handcheck but I can also see passing on what it seems they actually called.

All in all not terrible no-calls though the block/charge plays really need a whistle.

I also don't think the game, based on these clips is that physical either. But I think that as officials we need to get a sense of what the game needs and we need to get that sense pretty quickly. Hard to say without being in the gym but it does seems that this game needed some more whistles early on to clean it up a bit based on the play and other dynamics involved.

Honestly, having watched the whole game I don't think it was overly physical, either. It's just that some of what wasn't called, especially early, was glaring for lack of a better word. I tried to pick plays and remove the fact I knew about the post-game complaints (hard, I know). Ultimately the goal was to let the general population give its assessment.

I think it's fair to say there were a few things early on that could've used whistles. I also think if they get some of those maybe the crew gets into a good groove and the game ends up being a little smoother. Example: the block-charge plays. There were a couple the crew did get later on that I thought were good calls (off the top of my head I think the first one that had a whistle was in the late 2nd or early 3rd). However those calls came after 4-5 no-calls on some heavy contact. If they get the first two then everybody knows what to expect and the kids probably stop trying to jump in at the last second on airborne shooters.

Ok, watched this game start to finish, and am not really seeing the rough play that some have claimed. There was some physical play for sure, but nothing that stood out as rough.

For the most part "Ralph & Co" did a good job. There were a few I thought could have been passed on, and another one or two that just weren't fouls from the camera angle. Both teams had key players in foul trouble and I do think the officials need to do a better job of recognizing this and making sure that fouls 4 and 5 are consistent with what had been called earlier.

The kid that got ejected has to know better, and the team looked lost without him. In the 4th qtr, SA could not make an outside shot either.

I concur with you. I thought the crew did a good job with what they had to deal with. Just wish they could have had a better game to end the season on than that. I know it would have left a bad taste in my mouth for sure.

2013 IHSA Boys Basketball 2A Championship - South Holland (Seton Academy) vs Harrisburg (Event): Illinois: PlayOn! Sports

I had a sick day with nothing to watch on TV, so I watched this whole game. I actually thought the first half was well officiated. Only had a couple plays outside of the two block/PCs that have been discussed that I raised an eyebrow at. Thought the T and ejection was warrented. They had Td both sides for some chippiness. If you watch the whole game, Seton was in complete control, up 10 with close to 2 minutes and does a little stall, draw the foul, then #4 blows up. They miss the front of their 1and1, Harrisburg makes 4 of 4 T shots and closes the half strong. #4 cost his team big time.

Would love to get some input on a couple crashes. This crew seemed to struggle with PC/block/NC all day. Check these out:
7:38 of 3rd (1:29 on video) - looks like a good NC on minimal contact
6:55 of 3rd (1:30.20 on video)- looks like a block to me, they NC it.
2:57 of 3rd (1:40.3)- looks like block or NC to me (contact on outside of shoulder) but they PC it
1:30 of 3rd - good no call
4:55 of 4th (1:54)- NC on what looks like a PC but needs a whistle IMO.
4:16 of 4th (1:57)- PC looked like a block or NC (contact on outside of shoulder)

There were a couple strange calls that go against Seton at 2:40 of 4th (looked like an obvious open court foul but NC) and a phantom travel at 2:25. Not sure if that is what coach was upset about.

All that said, Harrisberg had some tough calls go against them too. They obviously overcame them and handled them better than Seton did by making thier FTs AND maintaining composure and just making shots.

I'll put these plays on another clip and open a new thread.

This game has turned into something bad...


Illinois state championship game marred by accusations of racism

Good article. Seems this game was almost cancelled at halftime.