Ejections after Cal-Stanford scrap highlight need for a rule change
 

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If coaches act like adults than this would not be an issue in the first place. I do not see a need for a rules change. The coaches should have stayed on the benches plain and simple. All those people do is help escalate the situation as people are grabbing them and more people to say something to add to an already volatile situation.

Peace

I disagree...assuming assistant coaches are acting as peacemakers, they almost always help the situation IMO...the NBA has this rule right in that head and assistant coaches can come onto the court acting as peacemakers.

I agree here. I've seen "Asst. Coaches" inflame the situation more by grabbing players (not even their own) to break up skirmishes that didn't start out as fights but ended up with punches thrown. From my experience, getting more people on the floor does not de-escalate the situation.

Absolutely great move by the assistant coaches, who acted in the best interest of their team. Couldn't afford losing players for future game(s) for throwing hands.

Being ejected as an assistant is a miniscule price to pay.

That is a delicate balance. Just look at this situation compared Notre Dame-St.Johns situation. I did not see the situation calming down very quickly in this game compared to a few days ago. It even seem this situation between Cal-Stanford went on too long. There were as many coaches on the court as players and I honestly cannot think in that chaos that officials can always tell who is who and adjudicate the right things in the situation. At least players are in uniforms and Head Coach is usually very easy to identify. Assistants in suits are not necessarily easy to spot who is on what team.

Peace

Well at this level, they have replay, so that would make for easy identification...but I do agree it would harder in games w/o the use of replay. And also, in NBA games, not all assistants are going onto the court...usually its 2-3 of their job to make sure no one leaves the vicinity of the bench, because unlike NFHS/NCAA, while it's not an in-game penalty for just leaving the bench area during an altercation, it is an automatic one game fine and the league is real strict about this (just ask Amar'e about this).

Still, since coaches great input on the rules, I wouldn't be surprised to see this rule altered.

Put my on Jeff's side of this one. 5x5 on the court, 2 of them pissed, USUALLY at least one of each side is helping break things up. At worst, you have 8 people to watch.

Add a coach and 2 assistants and suddenly the "pile" is twice as large, with twice as many arms and elbows. Intentions aside, this sudden 14 person pileup becomes much harder to manage.

Add to this that in general, my experience with ***. coaches is that they live up to their abbreviations and are more hotheaded than some players.

I am just saying it would not be a good idea. I am sure it would be considered a change. But then again not many fights anymore like this and I would not be surprised if nothing changes for a couple of situations that might involve a coach or two.

Peace

So if you pause it during the "height" of the confrontation, there are 10 Coaches in suits on the court in the middle of the players...so why are only 3 of them being disciplined?

Also in the ND/St Johns, situation, there's an assistant coach that's off the bench and gets involved. Don't believe he was ejected from the game. And honestly, I bet if we went back and watched films of altercations or potential altercations, that more assistant coaches, by strict interpretation of the rule, should be ejected, yet aren't.

I'm with JRut. More people out there creates a chance for more chaos. Leave the rule the way it is and let the individual conferences deal with the discipline. Most games at all NCAA levels have cameras in the building, whether they're on ESPN or the internet. If they were being peacemakers they'll be back on the bench the next game because their conference commissioners will be able to see what happened.

That's where the us problem comes in. We as officials know what the rule is but don't enforce it, in this situation or the St. John's/Notre Dame situation. If anything might bring about a change it's the lack of consistency from us.

Hopefully they ejected Cal #35 for coming off the bench as well. As far as ejecting the assistant coaches, I think I'm with Jeff on this one, way too many folks out there.

I think the rule should be changed...there's already a mechanism to punish those who are exacerbating the situation. True peacemakers shouldn't be punished for a good deed because others are rats. Hold them to a strict standard; even a HINT of not helping and they're gone. But if they're truly helping - well, that's their role IMO.

I understand the reasoning as to why you would want to allow assistant coaches to come off of the court in this situation, but I still believe that they need to stay on the bench in these situations. When chaos occurs (i.e. a fight), less is more. There will always be players who are involved in the altercation, and there will always be players who are trying to break up the altercation.

Assistant coaches are bench personnel, and they should remain to be bench personnel when a fight situation occurs. The more people you allow to come onto the court in these situations, the more problems you could potentially have.

All in all, I think the assistant coaches did the right thing in this situation, and, like was said earlier, an ejection is a small price to pay to calm the situation at hand. They still need to be restricted to the bench in those situations though.

Leave the rule the way it is and give the officials the flexibility to look at replay to determine whether the assistants were peacemakers and helpful or not. In this case they were and they should not have been ejected.

Years ago, we ran through this in a chapter meeting -- a simulated fight -- and talked about as a mock crew how to handle it. It was quickly decided that the coaches who came on the floor to get their own players off were deemed to have been "beckoned" on the court by the officials, even if retroactively. Now, if an assistant is exacerbating trouble or can't keep their own players on the bench, use the rule to inflict appropriate penalties.

The Cal player who started this needs to be suspended for more than just a game. He flopped and retaliated for nothing. Cal was clearly looking for an excuse to start something and this needs to be dealt with severely by the conference and the NCAA.

If they keep the rule the way it is, the assistants would be rejected regardless. I agree with your suggestion in that peacekeepers shouldn't be ejected. I also can't say for certain, but if I were a betting man, I'm guessing, at least at this level, assistants come out on the floor more often than not...and aren't getting ejected for it either which is "right" in my opinion.

I've went back and viewed 4 altercations or potential altercations, and assistants came out in EVERY single instance and no ejections were handed to the assistants. It would appear this crew handled this contrary to how this is usually handled at this level. I wonder if the crews were dinged for not doing so...if I had to guess, I'd say not.

If you allow assistant coaches to come off the bench to pull players apart, what is to stop a player from coming off the bench even to do the same thing? When a fight breaks out it is usually a maximum of 4 players. That means there are another 9 people (6 players, 3 officials) on the court who can work to separate the combatants. In my mind, a player or coach coming from the bench is more likely to aggravate the situation than help it.

If the rule allowed assistant coaches to help, players would still be prevented. They aren't stupid.

This makes no sense. Let's assume all 10 players on the court are going at it. How in the heck are 2 people (one HC from each side) supposed to stop this? Also why are we assuming that the players will listen any more to the HC than an AC in these types of situations. I think the rule should be changed.

BTW what is to happen to any security personnel that help break up the fracas? Are we to have them shackled and sent to the dungeons?

In January, NCAAW received a video bulletin from Debbie Williamson dealing with stuff like this and she didn't sound happy that assistants weren't ejected for coming off the bench during an altercation (near-fight between Md & UNC). Does anyone know whether NCAAM received anything similar this season?

That play was a mess... There's no way I would've gotten all that right from what Debbie explained on that video.

Agreed, adds to the chaos Can you say Jeff Van Gundy. Every fight you ever can visualize has the 'suits' flaying around, Joseph A. Banks ties a flyin'