Resumption of Play Issue

Adam

rockyroad wrote
Yes it is a T for DofG.

Yes it covers all other potential DofG as it serves as the warning also.

I must be missing something.

rockyroad

Adam wrote
I must be missing something.

What are you missing?

10.1.5.A tells us it is a delay of game T for not occupying the required marked lane spaces following the RofP procedure.

9.2.10.A tells us that a DofG T also serves as the Warning recorded in the book and told to the HC.

Sharpshooternes

When you guys whistle a DOG, not necessarily for the OP but any DoG, what is your mechanic? Do you actually go over to the offending team's coach or just Holler at the scorer's table?

Raymond

rockyroad wrote
What are you missing?

10.1.5.A tells us it is a delay of game T for not occupying the required marked lane spaces following the RofP procedure.

9.2.10.A tells us that a DofG T also serves as the Warning recorded in the book and told to the HC.

RPP DOG warnings do not count toward the combo of the other 4 DOG warnings (4-47-1 thru 4) as far as I can remember.

Adam

BadNewsRef wrote
RPP DOG warnings do not count toward the combo of the other 4 DOG warnings (4-47-1 thru 4) as far as I can remember.

Agreed, and 9.2.10a involves the defender committing a violation that would normally get the warning in the process. The RPP T does not involve that.

I don't think this is a warning.

rockyroad

BadNewsRef wrote
RPP DOG warnings do not count toward the combo of the other 4 DOG warnings (4-47-1 thru 4) as far as I can remember.

Interesting.

We have always been told the opposite of that. The T is still for Delay of Game, and so it applies to any Delay situations.

Do you have a reference or Interp for that?

We were told that the RPP has the "warning" built into it...if they still don't come out, we assess the T and all warnings are off.

Raymond

rockyroad wrote
Interesting.

We have always been told the opposite of that. The T is still for Delay of Game, and so it applies to any Delay situations.

Do you have a reference or Interp for that?

We were told that the RPP has the "warning" built into it...if they still don't come out, we assess the T and all warnings are off.

I'll get back with you late tonight or tomorrow morning on this one if someone else doesn't jump in first. We discussed it at our last association meeting.

rockyroad

BadNewsRef wrote
I'll get back with you late tonight or tomorrow morning on this one if someone else doesn't jump in first. We discussed it at our last association meeting.

Please do...we had the same discussion about 3 seasons ago when a crew had a team not come out of huddle and went through the RPP and assessed the T... later had a breaking the plane situation and went right to the T on that. State said they handled it correctly.

Nevadaref

Sharpshooternes wrote
So if we get to the replacement throw and there isn't a Team B player in both lower spaces, is the tech a DOG team tech? Does this "count" as the warning as well for throw in boundary plane violations for the rest of the game or am I mixing rules?

rockyroad wrote
Yes it is a T for DofG.

Yes it covers all other potential DofG as it serves as the warning also.

My answers are: Yes, it is a Team Technical for delaying the game & no it does not constitute a warning of any kind as this is not one of the four types of warnings listed.
This is the similar to the team not being ready to start a half and taking more than one minute or a kid not being in the FT semi-circle when the official is ready to administer (player tech). They have nothing to do with official team warnings for delay.

Nevadaref

rockyroad wrote
Interesting.

We have always been told the opposite of that. The T is still for Delay of Game, and so it applies to any Delay situations.

Do you have a reference or Interp for that?

We were told that the RPP has the "warning" built into it...if they still don't come out, we assess the T and all warnings are off.

This last part certainly isn't true. The NFHS made a point a few years ago about each and every RPP situation being different and the entire process starting over with a first live ball before assessing a team T. Someone can surely find that ruling.

bob jenkins

rockyroad wrote
What are you missing?

10.1.5.A tells us it is a delay of game T for not occupying the required marked lane spaces following the RofP procedure.

9.2.10.A tells us that a DofG T also serves as the Warning recorded in the book and told to the HC.

I think that's wrong, Rocky. The DOG warning and then T is used only is the 4 (or 5?) specific situations mentioned.

Using the RPP is not a warning for any of those. It's a way to play even if the team doesn't come back from a TO.

Sharpshooternes wrote
When you guys whistle a DOG, not necessarily for the OP but any DoG, what is your mechanic? Do you actually go over to the offending team's coach or just Holler at the scorer's table?

Depends on how loud the gym is. I don't "go over to the offended team's coach" but I do make sure the scorer and both coaches know what happened.

rockyroad

bob jenkins wrote
I think that's wrong, Rocky. The DOG warning and then T is used only is the 4 (or 5?) specific situations mentioned.

Using the RPP is not a warning for any of those. It's a way to play even if the team doesn't come back from a TO.

.

Ok. You are number three to say that. I wasn't really convinced when the situation happened in our association, but that's what we were told. So...I would love to have the citation needed to take back to my next association meeting.

bob jenkins

rockyroad wrote
Ok. You are number three to say that. I wasn't really convinced when the situation happened in our association, but that's what we were told. So...I would love to have the citation needed to take back to my next association meeting.

4-47 Warning lists the 4 delays. Not occupying the bottom spots after a TO isn't one of them.

10-1-5 c, d, e, f, list the T's that are called after any warning.

10-1-5-b talks about a T "in these specific situations" (including the bottom two spots issue)

rockyroad

bob jenkins wrote
4-47 Warning lists the 4 delays. Not occupying the bottom spots after a TO isn't one of them.

10-1-5 c, d, e, f, list the T's that are called after any warning.

10-1-5-b talks about a T "in these specific situations" (including the bottom two spots issue)

I pulled out my notes from the discussion, and these rule citations are the same ones given to support the position that I stated earlier. The reasoning given is that they are all listed together, and the RofP specifically calls the T a delay T.

So your counterpoint is the use of the word "specific" sets these apart?

I really want to get this right, but seems like the interp we were given is not right.

Raymond

rockyroad wrote
I pulled out my notes from the discussion, and these rule citations are the same ones given to support the position that I stated earlier. The reasoning given is that they are all listed together, and the RofP specifically calls the T a delay T.

So your counterpoint is the use of the word "specific" sets these apart?

I really want to get this right, but seems like the interp we were given is not right.

My counterpoint would be that the title of 4-47 is "Warning for Delay and the RPP violations are not listed in that rule. Then when you go to 10-1-5, "c", "d", "e", "f" correspond to rule 4-47 and specifically say "following any team warning for delay.

With RPP if a team doesn't comply you don't have a "warning for delay", you have a "violation for delay" which is followed by a Technical for further violation.

rockyroad

BadNewsRef wrote
My counterpoint would be that the title of 4-47 is "Warning for Delay and the RPP violations are not listed in that rule. Then when you go to 10-1-5, "c", "d", "e", "f" correspond to rule 4-47 and specifically say "following any team warning for delay.

With RPP if a team doesn't comply you don't have a "warning for delay", you have a "violation for delay" which is followed by a Technical for further violation.

Makes sense!

Thanks BNR, Bob, and Nevada.

Nevadaref

rockyroad wrote
Makes sense!

Thanks BNR, Bob, and Nevada.

Glad to help. I would also add a bit of info to what Bob already provided for you to convince those in your group.
BY RULE any one of the four warnings for delay is reported to both coaches and recorded in the scorebook. The official doesn't have anything recorded in the scorebook for the first delay during a RPP, so there is no way that such can apply to these other four specific situations.

billyu2

Nevadaref wrote
Glad to help. I would also add a bit of info to what Bob already provided for you to convince those in your group.
BY RULE any one of the four warnings for delay is reported to both coaches and recorded in the scorebook. The official doesn't have anything recorded in the scorebook for the first delay during a RPP, so there is no way that such can apply to these other four specific situations.

Excellent point!

(Always listen to Bob and never neglect Nevada)

Raymond

billyu2 wrote
Excellent point!

(Always listen to Bob and never neglect Nevada)

Guess I'm chopped liver.😃

billyu2

BadNewsRef wrote
Guess I'm chopped liver.😃

No-no. My bad. You da' man, BNR.

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