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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekent View Post
My idea was that in a scholastic game there is near zero tolerance for bench personnel negative reactions in response to calls. Here, the player who got whacked was the captain or de facto coach which is what got him as much rope as he had. But then at the same time, the team leader should set the example, and that certainly wasn't a good one.
Fair enough. My thinking is, first of all, he's a player. Players don't get to pull the ballerina act and show me up all the way up and down the court.

Second, even if he's on the bench acting as the coach, I'm not letting a scholastic coach act like you describe either. The foot stomp may have gotten a T from me, but when he continued to bark at the calling official, he earned himself the T (and if you're using high school rules, I'd enforce the seatbelt on Mr. Playercoach).
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:25pm
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And people wonder why we don't want to work these games for the peanuts that they offer. A$$hats like this are the reason. The less I'm getting paid, the lower my tolerance level is.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
And people wonder why we don't want to work these games for the peanuts that they offer. A$$hats like this are the reason. The less I'm getting paid, the lower my tolerance level is.
For various reasons I actually enjoy these games most of the time and believe that, to this point, they have been beneficial (at least to me).
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:35pm
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Originally Posted by rekent View Post
For various reasons I actually enjoy these games most of the time and believe that, to this point, they have been beneficial (at least to me).
Then keep working them as long as you feel they're beneficial (in any way) enough to balance out the detriment. I would encourage you to continue to call technical fouls on behavior like your OP.

1. Your stress level will decrease during these games.
2. You do not need to learn how to tolerate this behavior for scholastic games.
3. Your reputation will develop and players will know they can't get away with that BS.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:38pm
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Originally Posted by rekent View Post
For various reasons I actually enjoy these games most of the time and believe that, to this point, they have been beneficial (at least to me).
I actually started working Rec league games again this year after taking several years off from it. I have a low tolerance for idiots though.

Example: 3 minutes left in the game. Team A has the ball and a 15 point lead. A1 shoots a 3 point attempt, returns to the floor with his hands still in the follow through position, and there is some slight contact on his hands from the defender. I have nothing on the play. Play turns to me and yells, "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!" WHACK!! I learned then that players get fined $10 bucks for a T, and have to sit out the rest of the half in which the T occurs. If it is in the first half, they can play in the second half as long as they pay the fine to the table. They also are limited to 5 Ts per season before they get thrown out of the league.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
I actually started working Rec league games again this year after taking several years off from it. I have a low tolerance for idiots though.

Example: 3 minutes left in the game. Team A has the ball and a 15 point lead. A1 shoots a 3 point attempt, returns to the floor with his hands still in the follow through position, and there is some slight contact on his hands from the defender. I have nothing on the play. Play turns to me and yells, "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!" WHACK!! I learned then that players get fined $10 bucks for a T, and have to sit out the rest of the half in which the T occurs. If it is in the first half, they can play in the second half as long as they pay the fine to the table. They also are limited to 5 Ts per season before they get thrown out of the league.
Good, but I think it's best when the officials don't know about the extra ramifications of the T. Too many officials take that information and consider it when deciding to whack or not to whack.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:46pm
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Originally Posted by rekent View Post
player goes up for a shot and thinks he gets hit. No foul was called and he proceeded to go back on defense, spinning his way down the court as he ran, holding his arm up in the air slapping it to show he felt he was fouled.
Well, I stopped reading the OP after this point so you know where I stand on the subject.

I haven't done a rec game in a while but I know when I did I had way less tolerance for nonsense like this than I did for antics in H.S. or NCAAW games. Heck, I rang a H.S. coach up for the arm-slapping stuff (sans pirouettes) 5 minutes into a game this season so I know a rec league guy would have gotten one for it. The main question is: do you want to deal with this nonsense all night? If you don't, you ring up the troublemakers early - for legit reasons, of course - and your night becaomes pretty quiet. If your supervisor won't support your Ts then you should probably find another league. Why deal with the headache?

I'm part of a group in NYC that officiates all kinds of rec ball from little kids to adults. During our meetings guys/girls would always complain about the behavior of coaches & players. Our assignor would say the same thing: "I don't know why you all put up with half the s*** they do to you. You have the tools, use 'em." It didn't click when I was in my younger years but when it finally did the games because less stressful and I started getting better games. Believe me, you don't T the whole building because that doesn't work, either. You just take care of things when people are obviously and openly disrespectful.
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Last edited by JetMetFan; Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 09:35am.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 03:48pm
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
It didn't click when I was in my younger years but when it finally did the games because less stressful and I started getting better games. Believe me, you don't T the whole building because that doesn't work, either. You just take care of things when people are obviously and openly disrespectful.
It pains me terribly to say this based on your username (I'm a diehard Dolphins fan) but I find this to be profoundly true. In my younger days I always backed off from giving the T. Now I recognize it as a way to keep control and keep my own cool when the coach is trying to push buttons. Make the call, move on. Most of the time, he/she won't go for the second.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 06:23pm
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Originally Posted by rekent View Post
D-1 college intramural, zero tolerance policy for profanity, and sportsmanship strongly encouraged. Close to a high school setting is the hope, with a few modifications forced.

In a scholastic game, I get the guy with the arm slap all the way down the floor.



The overall boss would whack him I'm sure and be fine with my call, I just couldn't believe my partners and the supervisor on duty (less experience than me) were so surprised that I didn't let it go and took exception to those 3 acts.
I got my start in a similar intramural situation, and I really enjoyed it, and I miss it. It is much more organized than most rec leagues. I called several T's during my time there because my partners didn't, but only when, like in your situation, I gave my partners an opportunity to take care of business and that player was way over the line. Also, in my situation, my supervisors would have been pissed if we wouldn't have gotten the T, and certainly not surprised if we did pick it up.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:45pm
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Remember that Indiana Jones scene where the guy starts with all of the fancy swordplay? Indy got out his gun and shot him nonchalantly. That would be a good metaphor. Only your T is the gun that stops the theatrics. Just don't be like that guy that was trail in those videos that were posted recently when you make the call.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:36pm
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Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
Remember that Indiana Jones scene where the guy starts with all of the fancy swordplay? Indy got out his gun and shot him nonchalantly.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Good, but I think it's best when the officials don't know about the extra ramifications of the T. Too many officials take that information and consider it when deciding to whack or not to whack.
+1000. The penalty is for taking care of the current business. We don't/shouldn't care about the future ramifications of our actions related to penalizing by rule someone else's actions. Had my first flagrant personal foul DQ a few weeks ago where the two bigs were fighting in the paint to get position on a rebound. One started to lose his balance and he grabbed the other guy by the neck and pretty much pile drove him into the floor and landed on his head. My partner thought we should have just gone with an intentional because now the kid had to sit out the next game (this was JV and he was a starter for the V game the same evening.) I am glad I didn't take into account the "sit the next game" penalty as I still feel like the flagrant was warranted.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
Remember that Indiana Jones scene where the guy starts with all of the fancy swordplay? Indy got out his gun and shot him nonchalantly.
Word is that that scene was improvised by Ford and the director liked it, so he kept it.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 18, 2013, 11:26pm
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Word is that that scene was improvised by Ford and the director liked it, so he kept it.
Correct. They all had food poisoning (except Speilberg, who traveled with his own private stock of Spaghettio's) and Ford was NOT up to filming the elaborate fight scene they planned. So he shot him. The crew actually wrapped up filming early on that location by like a week because they just wanted to get the heck out.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Word is that that scene was improvised by Ford and the director liked it, so he kept it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mplagrow View Post
Correct. They all had food poisoning (except Speilberg, who traveled with his own private stock of Spaghettio's) and Ford was NOT up to filming the elaborate fight scene they planned. So he shot him. The crew actually wrapped up filming early on that location by like a week because they just wanted to get the heck out.
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