Playoff conversation???
 

I was wondering if others do the same thing we do around here. As it has been stated before by me, our state does assignments from IHSA office. And as a result a lot of conversation or talk is about what will happen with those assignments, either personally or what will happen with others. I was wondering if officials on this site or it is common that you (or a social group of you) try to figure out who is going where and where they might be going? We also have "unofficial" websites that track where officials are going in both football and basketball and people spend a lot of time either tracking or trying to figure out what might happen. I was just wondering is that common or do people not care?

Peace

Oklahoma..

The state association assigns all playoff officials. First round games (District) the coaches submit a list of 15 names and each three team district gets 2 off the list if possible. The only input we have on where we go is we can scratch schools if we have a conflict. After the first round, the association could send you anywhere.

Our assignments for this Thursday-Saturday came out today. We have no idea where or if we are going until we get the email from the arbiter site. We talk and speculate, but really have no idea. On Tuesday, the association puts up a link on arbiter which shows every site and the two, or three guys going to call the games. Schools and officials can access this info. There is also a link that show every eligible playoff official, which also contains there rating as well.

Here everything other than the state semis and finals is posted for any official to see.

We see who are partners are, but we do not necessarily see who is working in places we are not working personally. That information is tracked by websites. It is not really a secret because people tell everyone where they are working.

Peace

State officials here are selected by the VHSL. Only those officials plus the commissioners are privy to assignments.

District and regional assignments are made by commissioners.

We were told today who made the list for post season assignments, I was blessed to make the list, not sure I will get an assignment, it depends on when and where the games are.

The board names the top 15 officials ( in Alpha order ) for regional games. And we had 8 qualify for Md. state tourney and 3 for W.Va state tourney.

I've had the honor of 5 postseason assignments so far. 2 district and 3 Regionals. We still have three more weeks to go. Small school state tournament is in 2 weeks with the big schools the following.

California Interscholastic Federation Southern Section-
Assignments are handled by the section office.Very rarely will an official get to work a game in his/her home area.For example our school is part of the Inland Unit of the Southern California Basketball Officials Association:I have seen officials from the following areas get our playoff games at home:Foothill-Citrus,Desert Valley,Orange County,South Orange County,and San Gabriel.We had the same crew out of San Gabriel in the quarters two years in a row.

We get an email from our local association encouraging everyone to show up and support those officials who have received playoff assignments.

As I understand it, here coaches pick officials (don't get me started on that) up to the state tournament. The UIL selects officials for the state tournament and I'm not sure what their selection process is.

:eek:

Makes me want to go back to Oklahoma.

In the St. Louis area I can’t say that officials spend a lot time speculating or discussing playoff assignments prior to them coming out. It is not that officials don’t care; it would nothing more than an exercise in futility trying to guess anything.

From the sectional level and beyond the assignments are handled by the State Activities office. Very little information is available regarding the process and any speculation would be just that, speculation.

After the fact is a different story. There is the usual moaning and groaning about who got what assignment or didn’t get an assignment. Which I am sure goes on most everywhere.

From what I can tell Illinois has a more structured process and the progression through it seems more logical. In Missouri it is not uncommon for an official of seven or eight years make it to the finals. Based on what I know about Illinois that would extremely improbable.

This year Indiana has changed from the 100% coaches vote to 50% vote. The other 50% is made up of previous tournament experience, years of licensure, number of contests worked, test score (part II) and Association attendace.

It's an ugly system, especially in this area.

In this area? Does it even vary between different areas of Texas? (assuming the same group UIL or TASO)

I've received first and second round playoff games and I am certain I wasn't requested since I hadn't seen any of the teams involved. Ever. There are occasions where coaches will request certain officials and we were told that those requests would be fulfilled if at all possible. I know that several districts outside of our season coverage zone have requested our association work their playoff games. But not all coaches request specific officials.

Whew, much better since I expect the bulk of my time to be in your area and association!

It's an outstanding association. I should also mention getting an assignment doesn't guarantee anything - either coach can scratch officials at their discretion. So if, for any reason, they don't want me in their game they can scratch me.

Same in Iowa. Drive yourself but nats crazy trying to figure it out or worrying about it. Working tonight and tomorrow night, and if i dont get an email in the next 30 minutes my season is done. That is for the boys union....(yeah, i know, why 2? can't answer that.) Girls union gives you all the games up front so you know where you stand. Boys, you wait on Monday's til 4:00 each week to see if you are working more. Hoping for a Sub State final...
cross your fingers for me.

As Indianaref says, at least we have a little control over our rating now. Now that assignments are out for both girls and boys, I don't think it had much of an impact on most officials. Most of us scored equally on our portion and the coach's vote is still what makes the difference.

As far conversation, once the first assignments are made, we can pretty much pick the field for the rest of the tournament. An official in the central part of the state puts together a spread sheet showing all 384 officials selected for the post season tourney. That is of great interest and creates a lot of conversation. It is only distributed to the 384 officials who have been selected but the ratings are a great discussion.

The fact is that when there are 10 spots to be filled, there will be 100 officials that think they should be in those 10 spots. The 10 in those spots just might be the wrong 10 but that still leaves room for only 10 others....the other 80 will still think they should be in there but will be wrong.

They'll still complain about not getting it for whatever reason but in the end, most of those that complain are just not as good as the ones who get the assignments. They might be "good enough" for many of the games they do, but, they'll remain oblivious to why they didn't get in and will blame it on politics or whatever and never look in the mirror to see what it is that they could do to improve their chances. The first step to getting in is figuring out where it is that you fall short and doing something to address it.

At the high school level, I firmly believe this depends on where you live and how playoff assignments are made and who makes them.

Where I am, schools and coaches have zero input into which officials work playoff games - of any kind. There is a small amount of input at the university level, I believe, but ultimately the decisions are made by assignors with input from observers and evaluators.

We know if we will be asked to go to the State Tournament at the start of the season.

How, you ask?

We get X amount of assingments, from our association, for the State Tournament.

Each official is rated(from the previous year)...1 to 105(Master List)...or amount of officials in our association.

We ask the highest rated official if they want to go to the tourney, on down untill we fill the spots.

Some turn down the assignments for various reasons...such as letting the next guy go because that person may not have gone before and really would like to go. (We had 4 officials "pass" this year with 1 of those officials being injured...All 4 officials had already been to at least one State Tournament)

The first round of State...which actually use to be Regionals...is selected from a list sent in to our State Commisioner. But, our association goes by our "Master List" to determine who goes to the "big" tourney...with our State's Commisioner's blessing, of course.

Edit: Our association's board uses our "Master List" and a "Coaches List" to determine who gets Playoff assignments. (Districts/Regionals)
Again...the "Master List" is used to assign the State Tournament.

In my area coaches don't vote and we do not have a master list. Crew Chiefs recommend up to 10 officials (10 crews) for playoffs - I did NOT recommend 10 officials. The first week, playoffs are assigned from that list of officials. We call that regionals (used to be called zone). The next week (this week), is our state tournament. We play a final four in four classes. Our state tournament rotates between Las Vegas and Reno. Due to budget, our three main associations (that is all we have in the state for the most part) send a certain amount of officials to state. When it is local (it is in Las Vegas this year), many more officials get games.

Our Commissioner leads a very small group of individuals that discuss state assignments. It is a subjective process.

It seems to me like it would be a compromise to allow coaches to have a vote in playoff officials. I think every system has some sort of compromise, but allowing the coaches to vote would seemingly cause some officials to act differently during the season...some officials.

Here in Illinois you commit that your available and hope for the best. I received a good regional assignment in 4A and then realized I would probably miss my son's games until I found out they have the 6pm game at my regional and I'm doing the next game at 7:30......on my birthday.

I'm as happy as a clam.

That's pretty much how it is in Missouri.

For the record, I don't even make myself available for district or state playoff games in basketball, so I have no ax to grind. The district officials here are drafted by the schools in each district, then the state body picks officials for the sectional, quarterfinal, and state championship rounds.

Baseball is a different story.

Well you could call down in the office and I am sure that game could be switched for you to work another game if you were still working. Then again that is the dilemma that parents have at this time of year. You are not alone and that does suck BTW. I would probably be long gone before that is a concern, but I certainly understand that issue.

Peace

No, no, it's all good! I get to see him play, eat a little popcorn and then do the later game. Couldn't be better! My first game on the 25th is a play in game, son's game is following night.

I just looked at the officials for our post-season. There are 35 new officials on the girls side and 21 new officials on the boys side. 46/768 nearly 6% new officials.

I doubt it very much. The systems may vary but there will always be officials left out that think they deserve to be in. The numbers may vary from place to place but the situation will be the same.

And it is not necessarily a bad thing. It is a competitive environment and comparisons and goals are to be expected. It occurs at every level in every sport all around the world. Some people, however, choose to cause trouble over it and others choose to worry about what they can control and let the rest go as it will go.

You are right, I have not heard any system that someone does not complain about. We have no coaches making the decision and officials here complain about every aspect. Honestly what I have found is those that work hard, work different places and are highly regarded get the assignments and go further in the playoffs. Not that that is the only thing, but many who complain do very little and think they deserve a spot.

Peace

I have 3 play-off games this week, all within 15 minutes of my house :D

I beat you. Four games next week at a place 3 miles away.

It will only take me 15 minutes if the light does not turn green fast enough when I am driving. :D

Peace

Conrats, Oh hero o' mine! And for this how about a trip or two out to Bluestone next season. It only seems fair. :D
PS - don't forget to pick me up. :rolleyes:

Around here our association assigner selects officials for all district and regional playoffs. There is no direct input from coaches. We have a peer evaluation where all varsity officials rate their partners throughout the season and the scores are tabulated and each official receives a year end ranking. We also have evaluators who observe games throughout the year. I'm not sure how much weight any one factor has but it's ultimately the assignor's discretion who works all playoff games.

The state playoffs begin with quarterfinals and are assigned by the state (VHSL) athletic director. I believe the assigner or commissioner for each sanctioned association submits a list and VHSL assigns from that list. Quarterfinal games are worked by crews from the same association, while semi-finals and finals are worked with mixed crews.

There is also a summer VHSL evaluation camp where they take 36 officials from across the state and evaluate them over 2 days in conjunction with a team camp. You are then rated in 9 categories and given your score, ranking, and the avg score of all officials at the camp. I've been told that they are trying to move toward making attendance at this camp a prerequisite for state tournament assignments but I imagine that is a long ways away if it ever even happens. I attended the camp this past summer even though I worked a state quarterfinal last season.

Last year I found out I got my quarterfinal game the week of the regionals. This year, my assignor asked me to confirm my availability for a state semi-final about 10 days ago. I received the assignment in Arbiter this week and will get an email from VHSL telling me who my partners will be. My guess is that they start with the state finals and then work their way back in terms of assignments.

As for the conversations, people will talk and complain about who gets what. We even have some officials who show up at districts and regionals, and probably the state games too just to see who is working and question why so and so is working certain games.

I hear the talk about other officials and know things are likely said about me as well. Some people don't like the fact that this is just my 4th year in the association and I've received some fairly good assignments. I've been referred to as a kiss-azz and some other things. But I know that's the way things go so I don't really pay attention to it. I'm working a girls regional semi tonight and am sure there will be some of these very officials sitting in the stands.

What I do is make myself available, work the games I'm assigned, try to get better, and try not to be the source of problems and headaches. That's worked fairly well for me and it's the advice I give others when they bring up the politics and "game-playing" involved in getting better schedules and/or playoff assignments.

Regardless of the system used, there will be worthy people left out and some legitimate questions about whose working those games. But there will also be many more people focused on complaining and critiquing the system and individual officials rather than putting their focus on improving their game to get the assignments they say they want.

I have another question for everyone.

We have 4 levels of playoffs. Regionals, Sectionals, Super-Sectionals and State Finals.

Regionals and Sectionals have a Championship game. The Super-Sectional is one game at usually a college site or bigger high school gym. And the State Finals include the semifinals and the finals of a particular class.

Now for us in Illinois to work all the way to the State Finals, we have to work a championship at each level before getting state that season. We do not just get assigned a Sectional Final for example than then miss the Super-Sectional and work State.

Is that similar to other areas or can you work the State Finals without working other levels in that season? Also to advance to a Sectional for example, you have to had previous years of working Regional Finals to get to the Sectional level. Is that also similar or different?

Peace

In Missouri we have four levels; District, Sectional, Quarterfinal and State Finals. Only the district and State Finals have a championship game. The other two levels are single games.

There is no progression that is consistently followed. You do not have to work a District Championship game to work a sectional game, nor do you have to work a sectional game to work a quarterfinal game. The norm is an official usually works a sectional game or a quarterfinal game but not both. There are of course exceptions at times.

Not here in VA. Like VA Terp said we have 3 level of play-offs--Districts, Regionals, States. They are all assigned independent of what you worked in other rounds. We have 5 classes: A (D1), A (D2), AA (D3), AA (D4), AAA.

In 2010 I worked all 3 rounds (Quarter, Semi, Final) of the AA (D3 & D4) regionals but found out I was not qualified for the State tournament because of the camp requirement. I crew-chiefed a AA (D4) Boys State Quarterfinal in 2011 but I did not work any other AA games that season because my board had lost its AA conference. I still had not attended the camp (long story involving an ousted commissioner and what is now a political split of officials in the area) but got my assignment through a recommendation by someone the VHSL director trusted and respected. In 2012 my board only had 1 public school (Single A) and folks in our association were allowed to work through the regionals but we were shut out of the State tournament.

If not for the political split and my home board losing all its public school contracts I'm quite confident I would have worked a Final Four game in Richmond last year and/or this year.

So I am one official who can legitimately claim that politics has affected me at the State level, both negatively and positively.

There are quite a few people in our area that work both a sectional and quarterfinal in the same year. I don't know exactly how many, but I have talked to several who are doing both. Now one may be a Class 1 boys sectional next week and then a Class 4 girls quarterfinal the week after. There are some others who will work two sectionals, but one is a smaller class game and the other a larger class game the next week.

I was referring more about the same playoffs, not two different genders. We have people that work both genders (not that many in my area) but there are a few. Usually not practical for all as the tournaments cross over each other. You are almost forced to pick if you want to go deep into one of the playoffs.

Peace

Not the case in the St. Louis area. Possibly because of the number of officials that are available. Unless they make it to the finals most officials get one assignment past the district level.

So is there the same talk there about the Eval camp being mandatory for state tournament selection? I think it's going to be hard to implement for various reasons but maybe I'm wrong. Sounds like some are already saying it's a requirement.

And too bad about the local politics. Hope that gets resolved and maybe I will get to see you or work with you at Seigel Center soon.

Thanks.

The supposed requirement as I've heard it stands now is that to be eligible you have to have either attended the eval camp or worked in the state tourney previously. But there seems to be no real enforcement as of yet as evidenced by the fact that I did a state game based on an outside recommendation.

I'm confident I'll get there one day. It's a goal I set for myself after my first or second year officiating.

Host with the most!
 

Will you be there next week? I'm working as a host for the officials on Monday PM and Wednesday AM. BNR and others would/will receive special treatment any time. I'll add you to my list. :)

Yes, and thanks!

I'll be there watching on Monday and working the 3pm game on Tuesday.

Congrats on the assignment. PM me for contact information. On Monday, I'll be hosting for 2 afternoon contests, and spectating for the 2 evening games.