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-   -   The importance of a good pre game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94012-importance-good-pre-game.html)

Terrapins Fan Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:26am

The importance of a good pre game
 
Last night I worked a game, about my 50th or so for the season, It was a match up of 2 top 5 boys varsity teams in our area.

In the locker room, R says, it's almost the end of the season, we've been doing this all year, let's let them play and keep it clean.

That was pre game.

This was the first time I worked with U2 this year, 2nd time with R ( first time was game 2 of the season.

The problem was switching. over 90% of crews I work with wait for the ball to drop below the FT line to switch. These guys didn't. They would switch long before the ball dropped below the line even if the ball never dropped below the line.

I missed 3 switches. 2 were important as there was a BC call and on the other, there was a foul, both of those times, partners picked it up, but they should have been my call if I had seen the switch sooner. nothing happened on the other switch I missed and I caught it soon enough.

But my point is, in a good pre game, they could have said, we are switching early and often.

As I said, well over 90% of my partners wait til the ball comes below the FT line and that's what I was expecting. Live and learn.

I had one partner that was the R and he said, if lead is on the right and ball is coming to front court on the left, switch before the ball crosses the half court line and we did, it worked well, but we knew that before we went on to the floor.

Raymond Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:27am

It's rotating, not switching, that you are discussing.

Are the other 2 NCAA officials?

zm1283 Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 878973)
Last night I worked a game, about my 50th or so for the season, It was a match up of 2 top 5 boys varsity teams in our area.

In the locker room, R says, it's almost the end of the season, we've been doing this all year, let's let them play and keep it clean.

That was pre game.

This was the first time I worked with U2 this year, 2nd time with R ( first time was game 2 of the season.

The problem was switching. over 90% of crews I work with wait for the ball to drop below the FT line to switch. These guys didn't. They would switch long before the ball dropped below the line even if the ball never dropped below the line.

I missed 3 switches. 2 were important as there was a BC call and on the other, there was a foul, both of those times, partners picked it up, but they should have been my call if I had seen the switch sooner. nothing happened on the other switch I missed and I caught it soon enough.

But my point is, in a good pre game, they could have said, we are switching early and often.

As I said, well over 90% of my partners wait til the ball comes below the FT line and that's what I was expecting. Live and learn.

I had one partner that was the R and he said, if lead is on the right and ball is coming to front court on the left, switch before the ball crosses the half court line and we did, it worked well, but we knew that before we went on to the floor.

Do you mean rotations that the Lead initiates? I have never heard that called "switching". Switching is usually what you do after the foul is called when you switch from Lead to Trail or vice versa.

Bad Zebra Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 878973)
...As I said, well over 90% of my partners wait til the ball comes below the FT line and that's what I was expecting. Live and learn...

If you have pressing action high, the old C, new T should initiate the rotation. Is that what happened? That's pretty standard.

bob jenkins Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:36am

While it depends on the type of defense and offense being played, waiting for the ball to drop below the FT line is "old school." Generally, if C is looking at the ball, L should be at least thinking about moving, especially if the post player goes to that side.

Still, all in an association should be on the same (or similar) page. Without seeing the plays, it's tough to opine on whether they rotated too soon or not.

Rich Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 878973)
Last night I worked a game, about my 50th or so for the season, It was a match up of 2 top 5 boys varsity teams in our area.

In the locker room, R says, it's almost the end of the season, we've been doing this all year, let's let them play and keep it clean.

That was pre game.

This was the first time I worked with U2 this year, 2nd time with R ( first time was game 2 of the season.

The problem was switching. over 90% of crews I work with wait for the ball to drop below the FT line to switch. These guys didn't. They would switch long before the ball dropped below the line even if the ball never dropped below the line.

I missed 3 switches. 2 were important as there was a BC call and on the other, there was a foul, both of those times, partners picked it up, but they should have been my call if I had seen the switch sooner. nothing happened on the other switch I missed and I caught it soon enough.

But my point is, in a good pre game, they could have said, we are switching early and often.

As I said, well over 90% of my partners wait til the ball comes below the FT line and that's what I was expecting. Live and learn.

I had one partner that was the R and he said, if lead is on the right and ball is coming to front court on the left, switch before the ball crosses the half court line and we did, it worked well, but we knew that before we went on to the floor.

I concur with Bob. Waiting until the ball comes low is old school thinking. Move early and often and don't let your C be on-ball if you can prevent it.

That said, I never initiate a rotation unless all 3 officials are in the frontcourt.

Terrapins Fan Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 878977)
If you have pressing action high, the old C, new T should initiate the rotation. Is that what happened? That's pretty standard.

You're right, I meant to say rotating.

With most of the other officials I worked with all year, we worked trail sideline to sideline and kept the C where they were if the ball was above the FT line. Trail would come to mid court to see the action.

Terrapins Fan Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 878982)
While it depends on the type of defense and offense being played, waiting for the ball to drop below the FT line is "old school." Generally, if C is looking at the ball, L should be at least thinking about moving, especially if the post player goes to that side.

Still, all in an association should be on the same (or similar) page. Without seeing the plays, it's tough to opine on whether they rotated too soon or not.

I am not saying they rotated too soon, I wasn't expecting the rotation. It was my bad for sure.

Adam Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:50am

The standard here is if the ball is dribbled, or the C starts a count, the lead should cross over. That may change if the skip passes show up regularly.

I will initiate in transition once a game or so.

Adam Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 878997)
You're right, I meant to say rotating.

With most of the other officials I worked with all year, we worked trail sideline to sideline and kept the C where they were if the ball was above the FT line. Trail would come to mid court to see the action.

That's a wide coverage area for T. What's the thought process?

Bad Zebra Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 879002)
That's a wide coverage area for T. What's the thought process?

Not to mention real bad positioning if there's a steal and fast break...with the T in the middle of the action.

Terrapins Fan Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 879002)
That's a wide coverage area for T. What's the thought process?

Just what we have done for about 7 or 8 years. I would say it comes from working 2 man for years, T has sideline to sideline in 2 man.

As I have said before, we have 52 officials in the association, I would say about half are over 40, 1/3 over 50. I am 57, but I started refereeing 12 years ago. Most of the older officials have refereed for over 20 years. Most have never gone to camps, I have not. I would say we have about 7 or 8 guys that have gone to camps and they do college also.

Rich Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 879058)
Just what we have done for about 7 or 8 years. I would say it comes from working 2 man for years, T has sideline to sideline in 2 man.

As I have said before, we have 52 officials in the association, I would say about half are over 40, 1/3 over 50. I am 57, but I started refereeing 12 years ago. Most of the older officials have refereed for over 20 years. Most have never gone to camps, I have not. I would say we have about 7 or 8 guys that have gone to camps and they do college also.

Forgive me if I'm being rude, but that's horrible court coverage -- you're taking one advantage of having 3 officials and throwing it away.

It would be better in that situation if the C would initiate a rotation, pulling the L across the lane -- it gives the new T the ball-handler on his own side of the court (and allows him to step out to get a better position on the floor) and allows the L to officiate the post players that will likely start posting up on that side.

Freddy Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:46pm

Woeful Words in My Book
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 878973)
In the locker room, R says, it's almost the end of the season, we've been doing this all year, let's let them play and keep it clean.

Forgive me for being a plumber, but when I hear this from the assigned R, I immediately start hearing the theme music from the movie Jaws playing inside my head . . . then I initiate our usual pregame.

"Let's let them play..." is usually followed about 45 minutes later by a gripe session at halftime about how rough and out-of-control the teams are.

Now, back to the flushing . . .

Adam Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 879058)
Just what we have done for about 7 or 8 years. I would say it comes from working 2 man for years, T has sideline to sideline in 2 man.

As I have said before, we have 52 officials in the association, I would say about half are over 40, 1/3 over 50. I am 57, but I started refereeing 12 years ago. Most of the older officials have refereed for over 20 years. Most have never gone to camps, I have not. I would say we have about 7 or 8 guys that have gone to camps and they do college also.

It really seems to me you're short changing the idea of a three person game. What exactly is your C's coverage area, then?


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