Foul calling
 

I called a foul on Visiting teams start last night in the 2nd Q, It was her 3rd foul. The first I had called on her.

At half time my partner, the R comes to me and tells me that if I have a choice to call the foul on someone around her give it to them because people don't want to see the stars foul out. While I have heard this before, I have always given the foul to the person I see commit the foul.

He later did just what he said he was going to do, clearly the star fouled the girl going to the basket, he gives it to her team mate, it was the team mates 4th foul.
Thoughts?

I've heard it as well. The caveat I got was if they both made contact, choose the non-star. It goes hand-in-hand with if we know one kid has 4 fouls and another has 2, give the foul to the kid who has 2 unless you have no choice.

I had the "star" foul situation happen a few years ago in a BV semi-final game. Starting point guard for team A picked up two fouls in the first five minutes. Kid on team B drove to the hoop, the point guard hacked him and I called the foul. As I was going to the table one of my partners said - out loud - "did you have that on 22 or 11?" I said "22!" Then we talked about it during a timeout. I told him I knew what he wanted me to do but there was also no way I could've called the foul on 11 since that kid was a good six feet away from the play. My thought also was it was the star's responsibility not to commit a lazy foul. It also wouldn't have been fair to his teammate.

Anyone who does this is a crook, and deserves to be called one.

I'm not quick or smart or experienced enough to regularly do this. If it's truly a case of two players fouling and making the tiebreaker the non-star, sure, I guess. But anything more than that smacks of manipulation...and once you go down that road, how do you get out of it?

I am all for trying to keep the best players in the game ---- when possible. But if they are fouling you have to call it. If we don't call it, or call it on another player our credibility as a crew goes way down.

Don't make our job more complicated by adding "philosophies" into the game... our job is to call fouls and violations.

Maybe the player scores so much b/c every game he's allowed 6-7 fouls while everyone else is done after 5. :cool:

It stinks too much of game manipulation for my taste. In my view, one of our jobs is to be a good steward for the game and this does not accomplish that goal.

Does he try to keep the fouls even on the scoreboard, too?

Don't forget a little edge for the home school. ;)

I recently had a conversation with a assoc. member who was working a GV game where the star player for Team A had four fouls. During a timeout, this guy tells his partner to make sure A1(star player) deserves her fifth foul. Two minutes later A1 bumps B1 on a rebound and knocks her down to the ground. The P of the guy I am talking with whistles with a fist in air, thinks for a second and opens his hand and calls a travel. The gym erupts along with Team B's HC!(rightfully so)

Needless to say, the guy is rethinking how he worded the conversation with his P, and I suggested that the conversation doesn't need to happen at all.

My suggestion to him was to apply some preventative officiating before the incident by speaking with A1 and reminding her of her foul trouble and to be smart, but after that we have to call the plays without bias. Thoughts on that?

I have had a few partners suggest this since I started working basketball, and I hate it. What about the opposing team who might be going at the "star" player and trying to get them to foul? Why punish them in this situation? I think it's dishonest and it hurts our credibility. It's not my job to keep players in the game. I have enough other stuff to worry about before I think about keeping better players in the game.

Shouldn't that be the coach's job? "Becky, you have 4 fouls, don't do anything stupid on defense or drive recklessly to the basket."

2 years ago, I was working a non-conference girls game at a school where we'd worked at least 2 games a season for the last 5 seasons. One of the starters was the AD's daughter and the "star" player was the daughter of an official in the area.

The official's daughter was prone to foul trouble and had four fouls early in the fourth quarter. With the ball up high and me the lead (2-person) opposite the ball, the official's daughter set an illegal screen just off the periphery of my partner, who was on ball. It was a screen that freed a drive and I came and got it. The coach was not happy and neither, apparently, was the AD. The coach wondered why I was looking there (who else is going to get an off ball foul out of the vision of the on-ball official?).

I have not worked a game at that school since. My regular partner continues to get emails for games there and I've been removed from the list.

I'm just a bit annoyed at that mentality and quite a bit more amused. In the end, it doesn't matter since I only have 6 girls games left in my career and that school is well over an hour from where I live. I can live without it.

I agree.

I used to coach, for 11 years. I coached my son for 2 years. He was one of the stars but to be honest, we had an all star team. He earned 4 fouls in the 1st Q one game. I had no problem with the calls, they were all good calls. The problem was he fouled the guy over and over...

I'm not a crook, but I will do this in one specific situation.
Team is getting destroyed and the player in question is the only one who can handle the ball. There are other caveats, too, that make the application exceedingly rare.

This is all that I'll do. Anything else isn't supported by rule or case.

Sure it's the coach's job, but I am curious if there is a situation in which this could come back to haunt an official reiterating it?

Adam, that's my only caveat. I had that for the first time last month. There's no way that guard was going to pick up #5 unless he really, really, earned it. That was just preserving the sanity of everyone involved.

If you think it's OK not to call a foul on a "star" player in any situation just because they are a "star" player, then why don't you credit that "star" with a basket every time they shoot - even if it's an air ball? Same principle. Besides, if you call the foul on the "wrong" player, you're penalizing that player unfairly. And if you don't call a foul at all when the "star" commits one, you're penalizing the player who actually got fouled and also their team.

Remember - we don't commit fouls, we just point them out when they occur. If we don't - we're not doing our job.

In our local kids rec league, we've had some players who were the kids of NBA players and some of those kids were much better than most of the other players. We never gave them "a break" or showed favoritism. Every once in a while, someone would ask us about it and we were adamant that every kid gets treated the same.

My main caveat is if I have a situation where I could give the foul to either one of the players realistically. In other words I would call a multple foul or both player contacted the player good enough I could call a foul on either one. I have sometimes given the foul to the player with fewer fouls. I have also given the fouls to the "jerk" if I can as well in this situation. But if one clearly happens before the other, then I just call the first foul. Just like your situation, not very common to even have this situation in the first place.

Peace

I have had instances where I credit a foul to A2 as opposed to A1 as long as both were in the area of the foul...BUT...it has never had anything to do with A1 being a star player, I do it for every player equally, and I only do it on the 5th foul if I do it at all, and only in situations where it is so close that the fould could go to either person. I never not call a foul because someone has 4, and I never call it on someone away from the play just to save some kids ***. I know I know, none of this makes it right but, its what I do.

I don't have a problem with that conversation. I've had it myself and will continue to. The problem is the other official misapplied what was said. If the player bumped another player and caused them to fall then they definitely earned the foul.

This can definitely get you in trouble if misapplied so maybe less experienced officials shouldnt think too much about it.

But I have seen too many instances where officials call very marginal contact that end up being the 4th or 5th foul on key players and IMO that shouldnt happen.

If a player commits a clear foul, regardless of who they are or how many they have, call it. But there are situations where better discretion is prudent.

ETA- I would not remind a player about their foul trouble because then what happens when someone hears the conversation and you don't do it for another player on the other team.

That's Five On Him Coach, We Need A Subsitute ...
 

I've heard these many times over thirty-two years, even from my local IAABO interpreter. I just don't subscribe to this concept. I never guess on a foul. I always try to be sure, no matter who the fouler is.

I officiate and calls fouls where and when needed. I also agree with Adam as to the caveat. I thirdly don't coach. I don't "remind" players how many fouls they have, coaches how many time outs they have, and I certainly don't keep a running tally of who on the court has how many fouls. My job is to be impartial. Plain and simple.

I've heard evaluators say this and IMO they lose credibility. On one hand they are teaching us to be better impartial judges of a game and on the other they are coaching us to manipulate the real outcome of the game.

The way I look at it, most nights half the gym thinks we did a horrible job. The nights where the whole gym thinks we did a bad job are the good games IMO. Rules were gotten right and both teams an even playing field.