Dishonest Coach
 

Just thought I would get everyone's thoughts on this. I have been working basketball at the varsity level for about 20 years now and have never run across this situation.

BV game 1st quarter and coach is in my ear about a call. He is not animated but his tone is sarcastic and arrogant to say the least. I address his question in a professional way and he definately does not agree.

A couple more trips down the floor he addresses me again. At this point I try the nice guy approach and say politely I don't think I missed it, but you never know. No big deal. usually this approach gets the coach thinking this guy is pretty honest and calms them down. Nope...not this guy....he gets after me and says you did miss it. I address him a little more firmly and let him know we are going into not a very good place with his words.

Time out comes later in the quarter and my partner informs me that the coach said I addressed him and told him since he is yelling at me I will not call a fair game for him anymore. I never even came close to saying those words.

So, time out ends and approach the coach and say "I am going to say this as professionally as possible. My partner tells me you don't think I am going to call a fair game and this is what I told you"

He skirts the comment, and tries to make it sound like he was saying something else. I end the conversation with letting him know that anything else will not be tolerated.

Anyone else out there have a coach tell a partner a flat out lie about a conversation you had? How would you have handled this differently?

Thanks for the responses!

Yes, quite often. They even invent conversations that never took place.

Worse case though was a BV coach who I got into it with during a summer camp in an event not associated with any formal officiating organization.

He later told my HS commissioner that I didn't like him b/c he cut my son from his team. Nevermind that my son only attended his school as a freshman, never tried out for the basketball team, and didn't even have a GPA that would qualify him to play.

To the assignor: "That's not why I dislike him. I dislike him because he's a bald-faced liar!"

Do you think maybe the coach simply misunderstood your warning?

This is why the game of "telephone" doesn't work. It is all he said/she said going through a 3rd party. The message you get could be quite different.

My 2 cents...

1. Clearly you are not going to persuade the coach that you got the call right. Don't feel like you need to have closure. If I am 100% sure I got the play right, I would tell the coach, I had a great look and got the play right. If he continues then you can say "we will have to agree to disagree and move on." Once I get to that point, then further dialog on the play is unproductive. Obviously, if it was a tough play or you think you may have kicked it, don't tell the coach you got it right or that he is wrong.

2. I don't think how your partner handled the situation is an example of being a good partner. If a coach were to question the integrity of my partner... which he essentially did, he is DONE! Do not listen and if he does it again, the consequences will quickly escalate. The second teaching point is that I would have not relayed the information to you. Now you are upset even further. Your partner should have handled the situation and left you out of it.

The coach doesn't sound dishonest, he sounds like a grade A. jackass.

Around these parts, we are advised to keep enough distance between you and coaches so that anyone around you two can hear what's being said. After the time out, if you were going to address the coach, maybe you should have asked the partner who told you this to witness the conversation. Shameful that a coach would say something like that. My guess is, that attitude filters down to the players on the team.

My standard response when a coach tries to do this: "I will not discuss my parnter(s) with you" or something to that effect.

Really appreciate the feedback. My partner told the coach that he has been working with me for a long time and he would never say or do anything like that. When my partner told me what he had said I was upset and the situation needed dealt with. I take a lot of pride in knowing I am out there for the athletes and not the coaches. This did not affect how I officiate the game. But the coach did need to be called out on this and did need to know where he stood at this point. After our last conversation we did not have another problem with the coach. He was cordial and just coached his kids. Coaches are going to push as far as they can go until you do something about it. We have the pleasure of working with a lot of great coaches around our area. They coach, will ask questions when needed, and most of all are respectful to everyone. Every once in a while you have to deal with the other side.

Bingo. Always have a third person involved in these conversations. Not only can your partner confirm what the coach said right in front of him, this prevents the conversation from turning into a game of he said-she said.

I had an acquaintance of mine give a technical to the coach of one of the best teams in the state. The coach wanted to talk about it, so he invited my acquaintance (a few weeks after the game) to a talk in his office. Alone. Needless to say, some very negative things were said by the coach, but because they were alone, nothing can be done about it.

Always bring a third.

No way, no how would I ever do this.

I would certainly question the judgment of this official.

IMO this is giving way too much credence to the game the coach is trying to play. I'm not even entertaining this and depending on the situation may ask my partner(s) about it in the locker room. But I'm never having a conversation with a coach about what my partner said or bringing my partner over for that kind of convo. It's still a he said/he said only now you are doing it in person and the coach will just create another lie or add to the level of confusion.

And when would you possibly have time to do this? During timeouts or between quarters I may QUICKLY answer a reasonable question from a coach but I'm not having a conversation that lasts more than a few seconds.

Do you work for an assignor or do ADs schedule officials in your area? Either way this is just a horrid idea IMO.

+1. Not only would I never do it anyway but our assignor would absolutely have our heads if we did something like this.

See above.

Yep. That's what I was thinking through the entire OP. Once the coach starts going down that road, it's "coach, that's enough" then a T. The more we engage that type of nonsense, the more trouble we cause for ourselves.

If a coach wants to take a whole timeout to have a discussion with me, I am fine with that. As long as he remains respectful. How he uses his timeout is up to him; if he does not want to coach his team and make it better, but instead talk to me, that is his prerogative.

It varies greatly. Perhaps 40 percent assignor, 60 percent AD's. For the big schools, as in the case I mentioned above, the AD assigns for Varsity and uses an assignor for everything else.

It most certainly is *not* his prerogative. I'll answer a quick question, but then I'm going to my timeout spot, which is nowhere near his bench 90% of the time.

Not sure how he's going to continue a conversation long distance since he certainly won't be yelling at me.

Why not? If taking a minute to speak with him will increase and better your communication, why not do it? Coaches are people too. They may not always act like people sometimes, but I would not have a problem talking to a coach for a while.

Because the conversation never goes well. Ever. A question gets answered, but I'm not holding a prolonged discussion with him. It won't appease him, either, so there's no point to it.

I can give you a number of reasons. Here's two:

(1) While you're spending a minute with one coach, how do you think the other coach is reacting?

(2) How will it look when the conversation goes south after 45 seconds and the coach tells you that you suck? What will everyone else see and how will it affect your credibility?

Never say (n)ever! I'm not talking with the coach to appease him. Coaches need to know that you are approachable. If taking one minute to talk with him prevents him from holding a grudge against me for a call I made, or prevents him from complaining to the AD or my boss, it's worth it. I don't need to be a kiss-up, or say he is right, but the basic need for coaches is to know they are being heard. They may disagree with the call I made, and they may let me know about it, but communication is the key.

I hope he would be coaching his team instead of worrying about the official and coach having a civil discussion. In fact, I hope both coaches would be concerned with their team's play over my actions as an official, however if one desires a conversation, I will oblige.

If the coach gets personal, I walk away. Or give him a technical.

Who cares what everyone else sees? I have given several technicals (and I am sure you have as well) to coaches who have said things to me that no one in the crowd heard, and that not even their assistants heard. In such a situation, where no one else heard the comment, should I be thinking "oh, no one else heard that comment, if I give him a technical I will look bad". No. Let me reiterate. If you call a foul and someone yells "he didn't even do anything", do you let that affect you? No, because you know better than the guy in the crowd. You know what you saw, and you called it as such. Again, who cares what everyone else sees? We are not accountable to the crowd.

Reply as you may, this is my last post on this topic. We will have to agree to disagree.

It's been my experience that almost nothing good comes from talking to a coach for nearly a minute unless it's a whacky situation and in that case, you're going to be involving both coaches...and I certainly wouldn't want a first year official trying to appease a coach for a minute.

I wouldn't open myself up to a "That Guy" moment.

Hey, do what you want to. But remember, there's a LOT of experience here giving you reasons why this is a bad idea. Your posts scream of inexperience and naivety. We dont stay away from coaches during timeouts to be d-bags, we do it because there's very little upside to it.

There is not a single supervisor I know of that wants his officials conducting minute long conversations with the coaches.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by having this conversation. You are not going to change how you officiate the game and he is not going to change how he coaches. And how much time are you going to take after the time-out when the other HC wants to know what your discussion is about? And when are you going to inform your partner(s) the important information that was gleened from this discussion? Or are only you and that HC suppose to benefit from the conversation?

The coach is there to coach. You are there to officiate, and you are officiating as part of a team. Now what if the other coach wants to spend the next time-out having a conversation with your partner? Now you've put your partner in a negative situation b/c how can he justify walking away from the coach after what you did in the previous time-out?

This is very selfish thinking on your part. You are not giving any regard to the other coach, your partner(s) in that game, and future officials who have to deal with that coach.

If both coaches should be concerned with their teams instead of the actions of an official than why are you having a minute long conversation with ONE of the coaches? Why doesn't "coaches should be concerned with their teams instead of the actions of an official" apply to the coach trying to engage you in an extended conversation?


And you'll get lambasted by your supervisor for calling the tech. The PERCEPTION to your supervisor and everyone observing the event will be that you baited the coach into saying something inappropriate.

Good luck with your Don Quixote' approach to officiating.