Ohio State v. Michigan
 

Need two plays in the last 7 seconds clipped up.

7.6 there is a foul to the face on after a rebound. The officials went to the monitor. You could even show the shot that resulted in the rebound.

Last shot by OSU, contact and no foul called. I think it was a good call.

Peace

Play #1: Flagrant 1

Play #2: Good no call on the shot. I have a handcheck on the drive with 4 seconds left.

On the drive in, I would defently say there was contact there but was it enough to call? questionable.... The blocked shot was clean IMO.

I think the Mich player was playing defence on the drive very aggressively for the fact that they were not yet in the bounus.

I think Play #1 was a flagrant that went uncalled, with play #2 a foul - defender got him on the arm and top of head before the ball. But a no-call doesn't surprise me in that situation, it wasn't that blatant. But it was a foul.

I did not think that Play #1 was a FF1 as the rules do not support that call explicitly. I am not even sure I would call that in a HS game with those rules either.

c. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul shall be a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:

1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball;

2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;

3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;

4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting; and

5. Contact with a player making a throw-in. (Women) This act shall also serve as a team warning for reaching through the boundary. (See Rule 4-17.1.g.)

6. Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively per 4-36.7.a.


Peace

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That one pretty much cover it....excessive contact.

While I'll agree with you on the arm, the contact with the head was not until after the ball was knocked free.

Even Michigan players thought it was a foul...

"I saw the ball in my face, so I just tried to wrap it up," Hardaway said. "Probably got his arm or something like that, but like I said, it's up to the refs to call that call, and they let it go."

[sigh]

NCAA College Basketball Recap - Ohio State Buckeyes at Michigan Wolverines - Feb 05, 2013 - CBSSports.com

No FF1.

No foul.

No F1.

Good no call on the drive to the basket.

I do not consider contact to the face to be necessarily excessive, when the player does not go to the floor or was not an unusual basketball play.

Players are hit in the face all the time on shots and hardly anyone rules excessive contact when that occurs.

Peace

After talking with an observer from my conference regarding play #2:

Q: Does the UM's defense affect the RSBQ of OSU drive to the basket?
A: Yes. The illegal contact occurs before the ending drive to the basket.

The T is in poor position to officiate the play. The C has a closed look on the defender. The L is too far to make a call without seeming he is "fishing in someone's pond." However, the L should realize where the T is and has the best open look to see the constant riding on the OSU player's hip. I didn't see the whole game, but crew dynamics during the game are sometimes the reason calls are not made.

I agree with the judgement of the crew on both a common foul on the first play and a no-call on the second one.

Both close, but I think they were absolutely the correct calls.

You call and signal a handcheck in this situation and it will be one of the last calls you make at that level.

I totally disagree on the drive. For one they are running with each other. Also the OSU has his elbow out, which from my vantage point is not going to get you special consideration. The defender is just running with him. Also the dribble never loses the ball, stops from going where he wants to go or has to change direction. If anything the OSU is causing a lot of that contact.

Peace

BTW...NCAAW just posted a video similar to a play like the last one (defender riding alongside the offensive player on the way to the goal) telling us it should be called since B1 isn't in LGP.

I will say I don't believe that should be applied here because the defender lost contact with the OSU player.

In this instance, though, the fouled player is taken to the floor.

In my games, which are definitely not this game, I'm probably going intentional. I'm surprised, but understand why, there's so little support for it in this game.

I would not call that in my HS game. I see this often on shot attempts and missed block attempts.

Peace

Va Terp is right on !!!!!!!!!
 

Are you guys that saying that play two is a hand check really gonna make that call in OSU / UM with four seconds to go.

In 24 hrs you would go from Chysler Arena and $ 3,000 a game to 10 u boys at the local Y for $25 a game.....

Now who wants to make that call??????

John Adams says so.....
 

CBS interview with NCAA director of officiating

This mentality of not calling a foul near the end of the game is in need of change. John Adams is trying to change that but it seems a lot of my fellow brethren are resistant to it.

I am also aware that certain conference supervisors don't agree with Mr. Adams' and address their staff how they want their conference games officiated. It puts the officials in a difficult situation and that is very unfortunate.

You see a lot of guys pulled to the floor by their heads? Sounds like a rough league to me.

Agreed with Rut twice in a week .........
 

Rut is exactly right when he says that the defender is running with him....ther is no attempt by the Mich player to reroute / impede...etc. the ball
handler. There is no "stayed hand" ( Al Battista lovers back east are laughing,,VA Terp / PG Ref / all you guys). This is a kid driving hard and a kid playin in your face D.

Now as far as me agreeeing with Rut twice in one week....any suggestions ????? :confused::confused::confused:

JMF -

No disrespect to you and the women's game, but I am not surprised. I have a very good friend on your side and he says at best OSU / Mich play is a 50 / 50 play. But can see why Debbie Williamson and the crowd wants that called.

I don't either, just pointing out that the rule does give room for that conclusion.

Again, call whatever you like. BUt you better call any shooter that is hit in the face and falls to the floor and IF every single time if that is the standard. If he was not playing the ball, certainly. He was playing the ball and that is what makes this an average foul for me.

Peace

I agree you have rules support, but not common sense support. Not with how the rest of the game is called.

Peace

Guess I learned long time how to "Keep it movin."
 

I cannot even think of the last time you or I had even a conversation let alone disagreed with each other. I guess my comments mean more to you than yours will ever mean to me. ;)

Peace

Ouch...that will leave a mark! :D

What I was really hoping for was a suggestion from Billy Mac......however I opened the can of worms so what Rut said is only fair. :):):)

I agree that hitting the head is not by itself enough for an IF. In this case though, he was pulled to the ground by the head. That is I see continued contact beyond the attempt to get the ball after he touches the head.

I think this particular case is borderline and which way it goes probably has more to do with how chippy the game has been to that point.

Playing the ball shouldn't be a get of jail free card. You can be playing the ball and still use excessive force.

Good discussion here.

Play #1, I like the fact they review it on the monitor. Very close... the contact is excessive and in the face so I would opt for a Flagrant #1.

Play #2. This is not a foul by any stretch of the imagination. If you disagree, i would encourage more tape review of similar plays. This is not a "rulebook" decision but understanding how the game is played. There is zero illegal contact that would merit a defensive foul regardless of the juncture of the game.

I am totally against "swallowing the whistle" because it is the end of the game, but it needs to be a legit, no-doubt foul. You put a marginal one in at this juncture of the game and one's career will be VERY short.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Just do not get what this has to do with agreeing with me. I got my games.

Peace

I did not say it was a get out of jail card. Just saying it appears he was trying to stop the pass and missed arms and got the fact. It happens all the time and I think it was good judgment to only call a common foul. And if that is always a IF or FF1, you will have a long career. It was only seen also in slow motion and in live speed players hit all kinds of things and we never know unless the player acts like they are hit in the face. And if falling to the floor is simply excessive, then that will be a short career if that is the standard. The only reason that Hardaway fell is because he jumped in the air. Not necessarily a typical way to pass the ball. If that happened in the first minute of the game an IF or FF1 would have never crossed my mind.

Peace

Are you talking about the drive or the shot. Looks like a foul on the shot to me.

#1 In HS ball i think I am leaning toward an intentional here, however I do have a question for a third option. Would anyone have a slow whistle on this, see the pass to two of the yellows going the other way and then no call it for an easy bucket and more time off of the clock for the winning team? I think this is easier to do when the foul isn't so hard and involving the head. The caveat to this is, do you no call it this late in the game when you know that the now defensive team is trying to foul to stop the clock?

#2 No call all day long....and night too.

On that one, a no call is only going to lead to something worse than it already is.

And I agree that and IF (F1) is at least in the discussion. Being hit in the face alone is not enough for it, but the follow through and take down takes it to that level.

No, game situation they need to foul to stop the clock. Just call the foul like you would any other situation near the end of the game with the losing team.

Peace

This is a recipe for escalating contact!

You need to get the first foul. If you pass, the contact gets harder. We want to avoid any escalation of rough play.

There is NO foul on the drive. It is marginal contact at best especially given the end of game scenario.