Past History with a Coach
 

Back in December I had an interesting interaction with a Coach.

Early in the 4th quarter Coach B loudly complains for a traveling violation when A1 retrieved his own shot attempt that went over the basket. After getting him back in his box I quickly explain that's only a violation in the NBA to which he replied, "I coached D1, that's a universal rule." SMH

After this coach seemed to take personal issue with me. After complaining about something after I frickin put his kid on the line I was about to whack him, put the whistle in my mouth, and then decided against it as it was a 25 pt game. After taking the whistle out of my mouth I hear the coach mumble what I think was, "yeah, always stuntin." Translation- Basically implying I was trying to act tough as an official but wouldnt really T him up, or something to that effect. I could of gone ahead and whacked him then but thought, "No I'll just get him later."

A little over 2 minutes left in the game his kid makes a basket, Im C table side and coach turns to me, "If that was them you'd have put them on the line." Whack.

A few possessions later he stands for something and my partner reminds him of loss of box. At the 1:47 mark his kids is shooting FTs. I'm C opposite and notice Coach is staring directly at me. We go up and down the court a few times and I realize he is in his adjusting himself in his seat in an attempt to stare me down every where I go on the court. I consider tossing him but thought better of it. Game ends, we walk off the court and coach continues to stare at me as his team is lining up for post game handshake.

I report this to my assignor who says I'm sorry you had to go through that, I handled it correctly, and if he wants to act like a child we'll treat him like one. I said no need to apologize, not a big deal to me, just thought his behavior was inappropriate and that I should pass it along.

Last week I get a game assignment as the R for a district playoff game tomorrow night (this district starts earlier than others) and guess who the visiting and last place team is.

So the questions I have are:

When you'd had a situation like this with a coach, how would you characterize your next interaction with them? Obviously I'm going to keep it professional but how much shorter does your rope get? Anyone have an interesting stories about pre-game handshake or similar situations?

Theoretically, past history means nothing. New day, new game. Realistically, you are a person with a memory and a subconscious mind. Do your best not to let this cloud your judgment and slant any call in either direction.

What JAR said. Just get it into your mind that you've never seen this coach before and start "from scratch". However, if he makes comments about the previous game, put them into the context of him saying those things about this game and act accordingly - because those comments are attacking your integrity as an official.

Just act like nothing ever happened. Shake his hand, go call your game and if you have to take care of business just do it.

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

Your leash should be the exact same length it always is...nice theory, but pretty hard to put into practice, I know. You really should not expect anything different from this coach in this game as you would from any other coach in any other game, or react any differently to this coach in this game as you would in any other game.

Good idea to let your partners know about it in pregame.

A game like this will sometimes inspire you and improve your performance.

(I'll be damned if I'm gonna give this idiot ANYTHING to complain about tonight.)

I've essentially has this happen twice in the last couple of years.

In the first case, I had a coach basically chase us from the court at the end (reported to the assignor rather than coming back out to issue a T). Next season, I had them on the road in a first round playoff game. They were a big underdog. The coach, at the pregame coaches meeting, gave me the biggest cold shoulder I've ever seen. He wouldn't even look at me. I expect it may be a long night. The game starts. A couple calls go his way. His team is shooting like the basket it 5' in diameter while the other team isn't. Things are going well for his team. By the end of Q1 he drops the "I'm not saying a word to you" act. The game goes smoothly and he is just fine. Moral...some coach's frustrations with you can be amplified by their frustration with how their team is playing. Just call the game and see what happens.

In the 2nd case, the first situation was in a summer league game where most of the coaches are just dads and sometimes assistants or jv coaches. The coach was being a fool and ended up getting tossed. He lies to another official at he facility in order to get my name. He lies to my assignor about what happened...not just embellished, but lies. He thinks I'm some rookie. I had never seen him before and didn't know he was a HS coach. I find out that he has a reputation in his area of being difficult. I then see him at a referee camp (combined with a HS tourney) later that summer where I'm an evaluator. He was a bit surprised at that. Next winter, I'm working the state championships and I have his team in the state quarter-finals. I know he can be trouble but I treat him the same as any other coach. He is cordial and doesn't say much of anything in the game...and they lose. He knew I'd have no problem dealing with his antic. In his next game in the consolation round, he gets T'd...par for the course...and probably deserved another. Moral of this story...when you properly deal with them when they do cross the line, they remember that and will usually behave in the future.

This is the type of thing I was looking for. Just wondering what others had experienced.

I've dealt with coaches I've Td up previously or had heated exchanges with, etc. and when I see them the next time, or when they are scouting another game or even off the court I've never thought twice about it. I've also had coaches apologize for their behavior and I always reply hey it's basketball, nothing personal.

But this one of the only times I've had a scholastic coach pull something like this and really seem to have a personal issue with me and I'm just curious about how he'll act when he sees me tonight.

Thanks for sharing the above and to everyone else for the reminders and words of wisdom.

Keep in mind that he has a lot more to lose tonight by acting like a jack azz than you do. Take the high road and let his behavior dictate his fate.

Good luck tonight.

He had better get exactly the same leash you would have given him had the previous game not happened... or you are not doing your job. And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

Agreed. That's the kind of thing they need to know so that no one is taken by surprise by anything the Coach might say or do...don't need to have the "Man, that came out of nowhere!" "Well, actually..." conversation after something stupid happens.

Fair point but not realistic and not reflective of doing or not doing my job IMO. At the end of the day, a big part of a job as an official is dealing with people. The reality is that while you treat everyone fairly and professionally, you don't treat everyone the same or every situation the same.

So I'm not going out looking for a quick T or taking baggage from the last game into this one but I am going to be honest in saying that it may take a little less than it usually would for me to address his comments.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I learned from my first experience with this coach that I probably should have addressed him earlier and potentially avoided the situation that ensued had I done so. I will not repeat that again with him tonight while being mindful of not being the one who causes a problem.

I've already decided that I will. I'm working with two guys I'm fairly comfortable with and previous experience with teams/coaches is a normal part of pre-games around here.

I do think it needs to be brought up in a thoughtful manner though which is one of the reasons I posted on here.

I have different leashes for different coaches based on my past experiences with each of them. If I know a guy is a jackass and isnt going to stop once he gets started or is just going to whine and cry all game long about stupid stuff, I am going to shut him down quick. On the other hand, if the guy hardly ever says a word and coaches his team instead of complaining about officiating all game long, I will tend to give this guy a longer leash with the assumption that there is a good chance we missed something significant to get him fired up.

+1

Indeed.

MDLonghorn- Curious as to your reasoning for NOT mentioning this.

Exactly. A better and more descriptive version of the point I was making earlier.

Update:

Pre-game handshake- I look directly at HC as I'm shaking his hand and he kind of gave me a look like, "Oh $#!%, this guy." He was under the basket with his team for almost the entire warm up period so I don't think he realized who I was until that time.

Game was fairly close and competitive until about mid-way through of 4th quarter. Coach was fine. Very animated with his players but did not say a word to me the entire game. I think he asked one of my partners for a quick explanation after one play but other than that I did not see/hear a single thing directed toward us.

I should have whacked one of his kids with about a minute left but passed. Turned out to be much ado.....

But you and your partners were prepared, just in case...it's those times when we are not prepared for something when the sh!t hits the fan! Glad things went well.

First a war story. Years ago when I was officiating women's in the Ohio Comm. Coll. Conf. I officiated a certain school from the OCCC in the NJCAA Regionals and the team got blown out and naturally, according the the HC, it was my fault that her team got blown out. And she made it a point to let me know that I would never work in her conference again. I let the league assignor know what she said. The next year I had her three times at home and three times on the road, :p.

When young officials come to me with questions about having a history with a coach, I tell them the same thing that many other posters in the thread have already said, officials forget the game as soon as it is over (and some of us forget the game before it is over, :D). The problem is that many coaches think that we are always out to get them and never ever forgot. Ask any old timer and he will tell you of coaches that complain about a call he made against them from five years before. It is just part of the job.

MTD, Sr.

Official: Are we going to have any problems like last game?
Coach: If you call it as poorly as you did last time.

Can't get in trouble for something you didn't say. Glad you were prepped and it went well.

Suff happens but it's always good that your partners know if there's a history.

Three seasons ago I have a BV coach who can be a bit noisy. I called a couple of travels against his team in the first qtr. He wasn't thrilled with one of them and started yelling "that's a horrible call!" Repeatedly. While three feet out of his coaching box. While I'm standing at the division line across from the table. Bang... He and his assistant catch me at halftime and ask why I have him a T since he didn't swear (really?) and why he didn't get a warning.

Ten days later I have the same guy (both were road games). I tell my partner about the previous situation, including the stuff they said about no warning. My partner tells me, "Fine. If you have to warn him, I'll take care of the rest." Midway trough the 2nd qtr. I warn the HC. Two minutes later, my partner finishes the job. That's why we're a team out there.

BTW, that HC and I have gotten along just fine since then to the point where we actually joke with each other during games.

I think you hit it on the head... be professional.

It is a new day and a new game, but given the last interaction, I would not go out of my way to initiate any dialog.

As for the last game... I think you reacted correctly... my only comment would be once a coach proves to be "sideways," we need to stay away. Teching a coach for muttering you or staring you down is never validated on tape. Just stay away and if he wants to say something let him yell it across the court where everyone hears it... then you have a free license to whack/toss.

1. You can't always stay away.

2. You shouldn't let a coach dictate your positioning like that.

3. If you're worried about the tape, your assignors don't trust you enough.

I agree on 1 and 2. The point was not to linger or initiate any dialog.

On 3, I disagree. I work in a variety of conferences some of which the coaches have tremendous influence over the assignors. I do not personally agree with allowing coaches that much power, but it is the way it is. If the tape backs you up, it is always easy for your supervisor to defend the call. If the tape does not, then becomes more difficult.

Same here. I know for a fact my assignor will look at tape if there is controversy - whether it be initiated by a coach complaining or an official reporting that there was a flagrant foul. I'm fine with it and it backed me up on a flagrant foul I called last season where I was the only one who saw the action - both my partner and the head coach of the kid who was tossed were blocked from the view of it.

I still think your assignors need to trust you more, otherwise a coach gets to mutter anything he wants, especially if he smiles for the camera while doing it.

Agree about #3. I have one supervisor who wants T's on coaches to be very obvious.

Curious, what would have happened if the camera was also blocked?

One other point... Make sure you tell your partners in the pregame that you teched the coach last week! I had a coach ready to kill my partner in a game last year and had no idea... playcalling was good and it was early in the game. I asked the coach why he was mad and he said he was still mad at the U1 for teching him earlier in the season!

Look... none of us are trying to be argumentative.... Usually the tape tells the story. I don't like the fact that we don't have more trust, but that is the reality when every fan has a camera phone, both teams tape the game, etc.

The assignor in many cases is hired and paid by the schools in the conference and their ability to be successful does require that they serve as the liason between the officials and coaches in the conference.

There are two lies officials frequently tell:

(1) A technical foul is the same as any other foul.

(2) We forget a game as soon as it's over.

Actually, a majority of the time I do forget about the game as soon as I leave the premises or my parnter(s) and I arrive home from our drive.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong. Only pointing out the lack of trust. And, to be fair, it isn't likely your assignors' fault. Our assignor is an elected position within our association, abd the schools aren't going anywhere soon.

Not that tape isn't helpful, I just hate the idea of letting a clear technical foul go because you're the only one who heard it.

It's Texas...(at least in the case of Smitty and myself)...where officials are regarded as little more than an unfortunate necessity.

Which is exactly why I wouldn't trade football rule sets with you.

But clearly you don't forget, or you wouldn't be able to bring up past history in a subsequent pregame as you mentioned above.

My point is simple. I remember. Maybe not every detail. And that's good, because it forces me to be careful that I treat even the biggest d-bag like I need to - like today's another day. Prepared for, but not looking for a problem.

Yep... I think that is the big difference...I currently work for 7 assignors and all are hired by the schools/conference versus an elected position like yours.

In a way, that's liberating. I work for about a dozen and I didn't work for one of those assignors for about 5-6 years. No big deal, I have many others to fill my schedule.

It's when you have ONE guy you have to please that you're really stuck.

Back in the 90s, I ejected my baseball assignor from a middle school game he was coaching. When he threatened my baseball schedule, I reported him to the association board and threatened to report him to the state (who could relieve him of his duties). I worked a great schedule the next season.

I'm not sure. I probably would have had a conversation with my assignor at the very least. As it was, I didn't even know they looked at the tape until this season when I worked again with my partner from that game (who was the R in the game last season).

It's when you have one person you have to please, and that person will not support you...that's when you are really stuck. Speaking from experience here - working for one person who has control over everything and consistently takes the coach's side of an issue regardless of what film shows - that is a recipe for disaster.

Let it go, find your happy place, there is a new assignor. I am sure they would welcome you back

Shut up.:D