2 Handed Report of Foul
 

We see it all the time with college and NBA and now high school officials (wanna be NCAA/NBA maybe?) using the same 2 handed signal for reporting players number to the table There was once a good reason for changing the number requirements on uniforms and I suspect it's where the One-Hand, one digit at a time signals began.

I remember the days of uniform numbers with 6,7,8,9 in basketball. I was a kid then.. So I'm curious when and why the numbering on uniforms changed to only digits 0-5? And now 00 is excluded as a legal number. Is it for the one-handed reporter?

How serious an issue is it here? Two groups of 36 officials selected to do boys and girls high school playoffs have been warned that the Evaluating Committee will not select officials who use the 2 hand method of reporting of fouls to call the State Playoffs. Is this going too far? or does the televised games for the state championships desire clear division between college and high school mechanics? I don't know, but appreciate sincere responses and information. Thanks again.

We have a good many of our college/HS officials do it during thier HS games. I've never seen anyone say anything to them and doubt it would affect their state tourney participation.

"Walking and talking" and using 2 hands for reporting is encouraged here. It may not be "by the book", but I think it is one of those migrations of the game that hasn't been edited in the mechanics book. (Remember the "Birddog")
Personally, I think it looks better and speeds things up a bit, but I have no problem with reporting "the old fashioned way". :)

First, 00 is still a legal number.

Second, if your state want all HS mechanics, then it's a big deal. Here, they really want a prelimnary signal. I've been working hard to try to give one every time.

Could be worse. If a player's number was pi, you'd need an infinite number of hands! :eek:

Here it's exactly the opposite. Did a JV game on Thursday, was observed by our association's clinician, and his first post-game comment to me was "you need to get to the foul reporting area AND STOP before you report the foul".

He (the clinician) says that 90% of his comments to officials are about slowing down and taking your time with reporting.

I don't do the two-handed reporting because I'm not coordinated enough to do it.

IMHO, stopping in the reporting area and reporting slowly with one hand after making eye contact with the official scorer is very important at the high school level.

At NCAA and NBA games, you are much more likely to have a trained and/or experienced official scorer who can quickly find the calling official and recognize the 2-handed number. At high school games, particularly sub-varsity games, you may be lucky to have a kid who has even seen a scorebook before. This is not the case at every game, of course. But my point is that it's better to ENSURE good communication with a person who may be less experienced than we'd like.

3-4-3d

d. Each team member shall be numbered on the front and back of the team jersey with plain Arabic numerals. The following numbers are legal: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 00, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. A team member list shall not have both numbers 0 and 00.

Peace

Personally, I love the walk-and-report with 2 hands.

But when in Rome...

First, refiator officiates in Georgia where reporting with two hands, walking and talking is the way the GHSA wants it done. I've seen their training videos and I like it.

Second, telling up and coming officials to slow down is a pretty standard thing. Most less experienced officials are officiating too fast and need to slow down. Your evaluator gave you great advice.

Geek Humor ...
 

C'mon Mark Padgett. Now you're being irrational.

Now?

At least he isn't being radical.

Guys, at least TRY and stay on topic.

Now THAT is funny! (Can you tell I teach math?) :)

The reason is for one handed foul reporting. 00 is a legal number. In our state two handed mechanics is frowned upon by our association.

Off on a tangent.

APG -

You are doing a great job as moderator but please lighten up a bit......some of us laugh when Billy Mac and Padgett ride each other a bit. I would guess that they even get a kick out of it!!!!!!!


C'mon man !!!!!!!!

Get Out Of Jail Free Card ...
 

Mark Padgett gets a free pass on anything he posts on the Forum. The moderators will give the same consideration to any other Forum member with a pig's heart. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. also gets a free pass, but for a different reason. He's the only Forum member who actually officiated a game with Dr. James Naismith. It's true. It's true.

Most of us don't.

And we did create an off-topic forum where *all* of the OT nonsense is perfectly on topic...and can be ignored by those who wish to ignore.

Yep... when in Rome, etc. GHSA apparently (I've never worked in Georgia) wants the two hand reporting and walking and talking. MSHSL wants one-hand reporting and no walking and talking. Fair enough.

Same evaluator claims that he's never, in all his years evaluating, ever told an official to speed up his reporting or signaling mechanics.

+1

And we realized this, which is why things have tightened up.

I get we all want to have a friendly atmosphere, but I'd like to think most of us are concerned about discussing something we enjoy doing but also take seriously.

Taboo in my neck of the woods.

More than once during Area Meetings has our area supervisor told the group to get to the reporting area, stop, and use one hand to report numbers.

Addendum: Strict instructions not to turn the hand when showing "11" or "22", etc.

I don't remember being polled.

The funny thing is, APG was responding to posts that were deleted. The stuff that remains wasn't the issue.

Sorry, I might be dyslexic
 

Just curious, but those of you that do use two hands, do you indicate the first digit with your right hand and the second with your left, so that for '14' the scorer sees a 'one' on THEIR left and the 'four' on THEIR right? I've seen some get this backwards...I know they think they are signalling '14', but the bookkeeper's seeing '41'. Then some are verbalizing "one...four" and others are saying "fourteen". Some standard of consistency would be good.

SIgnal it so it reads correctly to the scorekeeper.

The standard is that this should not be done when reporting.

I'm confused. The two hands shouldn't be done or the verbalizing of the number shouldn't be done in conjunction with the hand signals?

He's saying that it's "fourteen", not "one-four".

Interesting. It was definitely taught "one-four" in my training class a few years ago, but now that you mention it, I've seen our interpreter officiate once, and he did it the "fourteen" way.

All varsity officials on my board (that I've seen do games, at least) do the individual digits, to the best of my recollection. Is it possible the "fourteen" way is a college thing?

I'm intrigued.

College mechanic? Nope...it's what we teach in my association (to say the number...not the digits) and from that times we've discussed this, it seems like a majority of associations teach it that way as well.

And it specifically says in the NFHS officials manual that "fourteen" is correct and appropriate, and "one-four" is not.

Perhaps they are teaching it that way due to the new NFHS Mechanics Points of Emphasis? NFHS Official's Manual 0.2.1, paragraph 3.

I think it comes down to personal preference for many of us. Still say one-four and have for years. I have found in college games I have said "fourteen" at times. I think the main thing is to do it slow be loud with your voice.

Peace

United We Stand ...
 

I'm not fond of personal preferences in mechanics, or, for that matter, any aspect of officiating. I believe that it should be more of a "When in Rome ..." thing. Officiating should be pretty much consistent within any association. Teach it one way, and do it one way. I know that JRutledge, from past posts, isn't particularly fond of "robot" officials, but standards should be set, and adhered to, within any association. This makes it easy for new officials to learn the "ropes".

Note: I'm a "one-four" guy, that's the way I was taught thirty-two years ago, and that's the way I teach new officials on our board. However, I'm pleased that the NFHS has finally decided to publish a "correct way" ("fourteen"). Let's see if IAABO follows suit, because right now, there are no specific IAABO mechanics guidelines published regarding this topic.

Everything in officiating is not regulated or has a policy.

Peace

Exactly. Frankly, this boils down to pleasing the people who give a crap.

At least all three guys should do it the same game by game. It sure looks better tableside. Don't know if you care about "pleasing" them, but it makes it easier on those guys (and girls) to understand the call. I know we think only one person over there (table-wearing the stripe this year) needs to know, but I would submit not only the official bookkeeper, but the PA guy who announces the foul, the clock operator (where boards that show ind foul totals) and the V keeper all need to be able to comprehend the foul signal at the same time. In reporting the fouls, you might be looking at only one set of eyes, but plenty more are looking at you, needing accurate info.

Again, too much regulation and people trying to tell us something that almost never is an issue. Never heard any table people ask all officials to be the same. Next thing you are going to say is that all books should be in the same font so that everyone understands are can clearly read.

For the record my only concern is the scorekeeper, if they are wrong we have more problems than the PA guy.

Peace

Dont see this as asking too much. We regulate where we stand for a time out and whether you all have all black shoes or all have some white in them.. What's more important, stuff like that or an individual foul call being accurate?

If a scorer can't understand 14 and one-four as being the same thing just coming from two different officials, we have a bigger problem to worry about.

I've worked with a few guys this season in HS games who reported with two hands whereas I only do that when working college games. They managed just fine at the table.

When In Rome ...
 

Thus, my, "When in Rome ..." comment.

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, it is regulated, and we care about how an official signals a foul to the bench. "One. Four" is what we consider the correct way, and that's the way we teach new officials. To ignore the guideline, and not do it, would not only confuse new officials, but it could negatively impact your game schedule, level of games, and number of games.

For those who officiate in "Rome", then by all means do it the "Roman" way, which, in some parts of Rome may be to report the number as, "Fourteen.", or in other parts of Rome it may be any "personal" way that you want to do it, and thus vary from official, to official.

It is when the numbers of officials are high. I cannot speak for you but we have nearly 6000 officials statewide. It would be really hard to get everyone to the exact same way of thinking on many issues, let alone report the exact same way when the officials might have never met each other previously. And no we do not have associations that assign games and dictate every little detail. That is why I said that it is kind of silly to expect that much uniformity on one night.

Peace

Try using one handed reporting to report a foul on NBE player Nicolas Batum of the Trailblazers who wears number 88. :eek:

Let's Not Consider Any Other Options ...
 

I hate it when I have to take off my shoes and socks to report a foul. It's a real game interrupter.

Your partner hates it too when he has to put in his noseplugs. :eek:

I just do what's in the book. They can't knock you down for following what is outlined in the offcial's manual.

In NCAA, I had a conference who wanted 2 hand and the rest wanted 1 hand. When in Rome......

At my association's camp this past weekend, the UIL (Texas) director of officials told us that starting this next season (2013-2014) Texas will allow 2-handed reporting of numbers. It's not required, but whichever method the crew uses - they all have to use the same method, so it will be a part of pre-game to decide whether the crew will use 1-hand or 2-hand reporting of numbers. I like.

Every spring, summer and fall I go to two hand reporting. In the winter time, it takes me about 3 or 4 games to get back to 1 hand reporting. Trying to switch at the start of each game, while that sounds easy, you may find its harder than it sounds.

I'm gonna guess that for all my varsity games (which is the vast majority), we will always use 2-hands. Half of the folks have been doing it that way anyway because many are college officials. For lower level games, I doubt anyone will care if there's a mismatch in how the crew reports. I've been using 2-hands all summer and I like it.

I have come around on the 2 hand reporting. I actually like it and did it during the season in my college games. Now I never get why people have to spend a lot of time adjusting as I did that all season. And every summer I do a lot of mechanics that are not NF and when the season starts it is just like riding a bike. And I have been doing all kinds of "college" or non-NF mechanics in the summer for years and never had a problem.

Peace

It has not been a struggle of mine to go back and forth between mechanics, but I mostly do high school and very little college yet. Maybe if there was more of an even mix, i.e. HS game on Friday, college on Saturday, HS Tuesday, college Wednesday, etc., I could see myself losing concentration on the proper mechanics. Probably just need to ride the college bike more often. :rolleyes:

I guess I'm lucky because my GV games are under the NCAA rule set. When I see boys on the court (BV), I use one hand. When I see girls on the court (GV/NCAAW), I use both.

The only thing that gets me confused is when I go to NCAAW camps and there are BV players on the court.