stating the foul count
 

I had a partner tell me that if a Coach states the foul count, such as it is 9 to 3, that is supposed to be an automatic Technical Foul. Is this true? If so where is this listed?

It's not an automatic T

It's unsporting and needs to be addressed if repeated. Not an immediate, first-offense, instant-over-the-line T from me.

If a coach says something to me about foul counts, that is when I am a smartazz. I will either say, "So" or "Stop fouling." But I will not automatically call a T for this.

Peace

Assuming the foul count comment isn't at the ABS limit:

First time:
"I don't count 'em, Coach, I just call 'em when they happen"

Second time:
"That's enough, Coach."

Third time:
Whack. While saying in my head: "and now it's 10 to 4"

We've been told at the NCAA (men) level that this is no longer to be tolerated. It's not a first-time whack, but it is not a topic of conversation.

+1

"I guess they need to stop fouling then." Said this before.

I am with you Rut. I Tell them, "Tell your players to stop fouling"

It is possible to have a civil conversation about the foul count.

Last week GV at halftime:

Coach: The fouls are 11 to 3. I know we're fouling, but they only fouled us 3 times?

Me: Coach, how many times did you even attempt to throw the ball into the paint? (opponent had 2 BIG girls in there)


Coach: _______________

That sounds like too long of a discussion over something they are trying to accuse you of something nefarious. You are not going to "reason" with them most of the time if you are discussing this issue. Even if you tell them why they are getting more fouls called, they will still debate it with you. That is why I say what I say so that they will get the message I am not going to debate this with them.

Peace

I usually give them the "Don't start with that" or "Don't go there" when they start in about the foul count. That usually does the trick.

A coach complaining about the foul count is basically accusing the officials of cheating.
Officials that purposely keep the foul count even are basically cheating.

I'm not sure what it is, but I am getting increasingly tired of coaches and nonsense like this. We have to care about one team or another to even consider cheating and...we don't care that much. I also don't know of one official that is purposely kicking calls. How many of us have actually listened to blanking and moaning from a coach and changed a call? It happens so little that it is counterproductive. I understand emotions involved with basketball, but some of the coaches - in my area anyway - just take it too far. Most of the college coaches I have come in contact with this season are OK once you acknowledge their concern - and they are often working for their jobs. High school coaches on the other hand can take it to another level. If it is an extension of the classroom, some of them are horrible teachers. I have worked in areas where high school coaches make $100,000 (reportedly) and the only thing they do is coach. Where I live right now is not one of those areas!

Sorry, that is the end of my rant.

I ignore this, then if it happens again, I warn them that we won't be discussing the foul count. I actually told a coach earlier this year, "That's the last time you mention the foul count."

I normally don't get that aggressive, but it worked there; he didn't bring it up again. Although it went from 5-0 after the first quarter to 6-2 by half. Second half was, of course, unbalanced in the reverse.

Had a game recently in which the foul count started 6-0 in the first half. During free throws for the 6th foul the coach stated the foul count was 6 to zero. I replied "So?" Yes, I know, not the proper response. But since I did address his statement improperly I allowed him to engage me in conversation. During our quick talk I pointed out to the coach that his team was playing a tight man defense and the opponent weren't even getting back on defense and giving up uncontested shots. (he was winning 19-13 at the time).

Sure... it's possible to have this conversation. But why? Why engage yourself in a scheme or strategy conversation with the coach. Besides ... coach telling you the foul count is telling you because he think's you're doing something wrong. It needs to be clipped short. Quickly.

I know this guy pretty well and know him to be reasonable,
wouldn't have said it to just anybody.

Each of these is a "you've got to be there situation."

The coach could be implying they are getting screwed or they could be trying to make a genuine point about something they are seeing or not seeing the same as you and would like clarification.

Ie. Coach A - " The fouls are 10-3. I know its a road game guys, but you haven't got to prove it." - Automatic whack.

Coach B - " The fouls are 5-1." Me - We just call what we are seeing. (On the lookout for ABS issues now.

Coach C - "The fouls are 7 - 2. I get that we're reaching in I'll talk to my kids, but I'ld like our cutters to get the same protection of movement their Pg is getting. I don't feel like we're the more physical team." Me - I hear you. If I see it I'll call it. (no worries we're moving on)

Not to mention Coaches d-zz. This completely depends on the coaches tone, approach and percieved intent.

...and if the score is in favor of the Coach complaining..."do you want the score switched also?"

Man, I missed a big time opportunity to T a coach up this weekend then... "the fouls are 11 to 3, you've got to be kidding me!" Nevermind her team was full-court pressing and fouling like crazy while the other team was in a 2-3 zone... She said it multiple times, then her parrot parents started chirping about it too.

Funny thing happen in a game I worked last year. We went in the first half and did not call a single foul on the visiting team for a half. I believe the foul count was 7-0 at half time. Then the very first foul we called against the team in the second half, I said to the coach after he made an issue out of this, "We did not call a single foul the entire first half, you really should not be complaining about that call." He kind of shut up after that. And in the first half he had almost a 20 point lead.

Peace

"I feel good about everything we've called, Coach."
Then, if the Coach mentions something specific - "Well, they're bumping our post players," or "They're chucking our guys when we try to cross the paint." I respond, "We'll take a look, Coach. Thanks."
Usually, there's no response, and we go from there.

Reminds me of a game 2 years ago...

Working a JV game at a new high school that only had 9th/10th graders (but had Varsity Head Coaches as they built the program).

Home team is winning by 10 in the 3rd quarter. I am table side during transition (after a foul on her team) and hear the coach ask the scorekeeper "What's the foul count?". I'm like ok I see where this is going.

The table tells her like 5-1. She says "No, the foul count for the entire game?"

I hadn't heard that request before....

I say "Coach, don't go there..."

I run to the other end and then as I'm coming back she yells out "The foul count is 15-5".

WHACK

I report the Technical...Home Coach says nothing and takes her seat.

Asst Coach asks "Why did he give you a T?"

HC says sheepishly "Because I told him the foul count was 15-5..."

Nothing else from the HC that night and home team won by 15...

(Some of you may question the T but she was disrespectful to the other crew members and inciting the fans prior to this. I was the U2.) :cool:

I CERTAINLY don't question this T. You tried to head it off and warn her.

She DECIDED to commit the technical foul. She begged for it. Issue it.

Good T, IMO.

A couple of my favorites--

Coach: "Call it both ways" when the foul count is 10-4 with more on the other team.

A coach was once quoted: "The trouble with officials is they don't care who wins"

Would it be out of line to respond with "Coach, are you suggesting that I care who wins this game? Because I can promise you that I don't". I've thought that in my head many times...

As the software nerds say: "It's not a bug, it's a feature!" :cool:

Too much. I don't discuss foul count, and a coach who brings it up more than once shuts down communication.

Coach (in a whiney voice): "You've called 8 fouls on us and only 2 on them! You can't tell me they aren't fouling, too."
Me (in my head): "Not nearly as much as your team."
Me: "Which foul to you have a question about, coach?"
Coach: "I just don't know how we have so many more than they do."
Me: "We're moving on coach. If you have questions about a specific play, we are happy to answer when we can." (As I get away from him)

This usually ends the whining.

Yes, I can be very gracious. Sometimes, not so much. Depends on the actions/words of the coach leading to that exchange.

Maybe it's just me.... but from some of these threads, you guys seem to have a LOT more time hanging around by the coaches than I do. There's no way I typically have time for that long of an exchange. I have stuff to do, and very little of it requires me to be next to the coach.

That exchange takes only a few seconds. Typically occurs when teams are lining up for FTs or during the first of two. Or on either side of a time out.

I don't mind coaches asking questions. I'll answer if I have time.

Amen.