Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 875520)

You did. Shoot the ball means leaving the hands to me.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 874989)

Is it very wrong because you disagree with it?

Look, if a player wants me to think they are shooting, then shoot the ball. If a player wants me to think they are passing, then pass the ball. Not all players that gather and jump in the air are shooting. Otherwise if a player gathers and gets the ball knocked out his hands or knocked the the floor whether they release the ball to shoot or pass, they are getting shots from me. After all this is all about judgment anyway. There is ultimately nothing right or wrong either way. I am just not rewarding a player that is not smart enough to know to not pass the ball if you want the total benefit of the foul.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 875108)

He takes away the doubt when he passes the ball. If the ball was lost or there was some real question as to what took place or what they were going to do (e.g. fumbling the ball after contact) then I would award shots. It should not be hard to understand. If the player wants everyone to know what they were doing, then shoot the darn ball. Why is that hard to understand?

Peace

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 875523)

You kind of picked and choosed what you wanted out of his post. "Pass the ball" also means leaving the hands. His comparison was strictly between shooting or passing the ball. Not holding the ball:

"Look, if a player wants me to think they are shooting, then shoot the ball. If a player wants me to think they are passing, then pass the ball. Not all players that gather and jump in the air are shooting. Otherwise if a player gathers and gets the ball knocked out his hands or knocked the the floor whether they release the ball to shoot or pass, they are getting shots from me.

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 875520)

You did. Shoot the ball means leaving the hands to me.

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 875524)

Well it was said twice in two different situations.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 875527)

"Passing the ball" means leaving the players hand but you are ignoring that all together.

I don't see a single phrase or sentence in the posts you quoted that said the ball must "leave a player's hands" in order for it to be a shooting foul.

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 875528)

Ok, maybe I am misinterpretating what was written. My apologies.

Originally Posted by APG (Post 875460)

NCAA and NBA...you're going to see that, more often then not, called a foul and judged to be no shot and on the pass off. Heck, NCAA even added a signal to indicate no shot due to a pass off.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 875648)

And a lot of those times, the offensive player has already started shifting to the pass because they see the contact coming, not after the contact, and that makes a difference.

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 875469)

So, a player starts their normal shooting motion, gets hammered, official has a whistle. The offensive player isn't able to release the ball. Are you saying they aren't in the act of shooting? IMO if they begin their shooting motion and get fouled, it is a shooting foul. .