Fouled Out Substitution During Free Throw

[Treeguy]

This was in the Detroit Free Press today.

The Mustangs were ahead, 57-52, with 35 seconds left in overtime when Marian's Kamry Peake was fouled, went to the free-throw line and sank the first of two free throws.

However, Divine Child coach Mary Laney got the attention of an official and said the substitute for her player who had fouled out had not been brought into the game when Peake made the free throw.

The official explained to Marian coach Mary Cicerone that he had to take the point off the scoreboard and admit the substitute, then shoot the free throws.

There was just one problem with that: The sub had entered the game.

"He said the other official blew it because he didn't let her in the game," Cicerone said. "I said: 'But she was in the game, she was standing right here.' Of course, I said it a little more aggressive than that."

For emphasis, Cicerone stomped her right foot on the spot the substitute and the official were standing during the free throw. And that is when an official from across the court hit Cicerone with a technical foul.

"You're really going to give me a technical for your mistake?" Cicerone asked. "He said: 'Yes, I am.' He was embarrassed because he screwed up."

Comments?

[APG]

Free throw counts, bring the replacement player, resume.

[bob jenkins]

Even though the coach is right, or has the right to ask / "complain", the coach still has to do so in the correct manner.

[MD Longhorn]

"No sir, the technical is for the way you handled it, whether we were right or wrong about the call is irrelevant."

[Raymond]

When an official incompetently wipes points off the scoreboard and on top of that wipes points off for something that didn't happen that crew better be prepared to allow a coach to stomp his/her foot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When an official incompetently wipes points off the scoreboard and on top of that wipes points off for something that didn't happen that crew better be prepared to allow a coach to stomp his/her foot.

All well and good if the official knows they're screwing up. Of course, if they knew that, they wouldn't be wiping the points off anyway.

[tomegun]

It seems like the coach was making them aware of the mistake.

1. Why did the official from across the court give the T?
2. Has anyone ever had someone that was supposed to know the rules mess up in crunch time? I would probably be emotional too.

It seems like a reaction to being embarrassed about being wrong.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When an official incompetently wipes points off the scoreboard and on top of that wipes points off for something that didn't happen that crew better be prepared to allow a coach to stomp his/her foot.

Agreed, agreed and agreed! I fully realize that referees are going to make mistakes from time to time as we are human. At the same time, when we do make a mistake, we need to be somewhat sympathetic to those we have wronged...IMHO.....

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally from that area. My guess is this game was worked by a very experienced crew. Just goes to show you have to be on your toes.

"4.14.1 SITUATION C:

A1 is fouled by B2 and is awarded two free throws. The foul is B2's fifth foul. The new trail official reports the fifth foul to Team B's coach. Before a substitute is made, the lead official incorrectly permits A1 to attempt the first free throw. The officials realize the error and huddle to discuss the situation.

RULING: The result of the first attempt shall stand. Team B's head coach shall be notified of B2's disqualification. Once B2 has been replaced, A1 shall attempt the second free throw.

COMMENT: This is an official's error and not a correctable error situation according to Rule 2, Section 10. (6-1-2c; 10-5-2; 2-8-3)"

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Agreed, agreed and agreed! I fully realize that referees are going to make mistakes from time to time as we are human. At the same time, when we do make a mistake, we need to be somewhat sympathetic to those we have wronged...IMHO.....

Love this logic.

If you've screwed up, you should let people yell at you longer. Nevermind that you don't know, at the time, that you've screwed up.

[Treeguy]

At least they did not name the refs, but there is a picture of two of them arguing with the coach.

[APG]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Love this logic.

If you've screwed up, you should let people yell at you longer. Nevermind that you don't know, at the time, that you've screwed up.

Maybe, in this case, they wouldn't know they screwed up a rule they should know. But in a general sense, on a bang-bang play, or a judgement call on a foul that I'm thinking I should have probably held back on? I'm giving more leash on that (within reason).

In retrospect, this is a misapplication of the rules, which is never acceptable. And the situation is made to look even worse because the officials didn't make a questionable judgement, but didn't apply the rules incorrectly, and it resulted (directly or indirectly) lead to a T.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

This was in the Detroit Free Press today.

The Mustangs were ahead, 57-52, with 35 seconds left in overtime when Marian's Kamry Peake was fouled, went to the free-throw line and sank the first of two free throws.

However, Divine Child coach Mary Laney got the attention of an official and said the substitute for her player who had fouled out had not been brought into the game when Peake made the free throw.

The official explained to Marian coach Mary Cicerone that he had to take the point off the scoreboard and admit the substitute, then shoot the free throws.

There was just one problem with that: The sub had entered the game.

"He said the other official blew it because he didn't let her in the game," Cicerone said. "I said: 'But she was in the game, she was standing right here.' Of course, I said it a little more aggressive than that."

For emphasis, Cicerone stomped her right foot on the spot the substitute and the official were standing during the free throw. And that is when an official from across the court hit Cicerone with a technical foul.

"You're really going to give me a technical for your mistake?" Cicerone asked. "He said: 'Yes, I am.' He was embarrassed because he screwed up."

Comments?

It is unclear from the article whether anyone realized that taking the point off the board was a mistake or not.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Love this logic.

If you've screwed up, you should let people yell at you longer. Nevermind that you don't know, at the time, that you've screwed up.

Once they were made aware that the sub was already in the game they knew they had screwed up. (since that's what they were incorrectly basing their CE ruling on).

And, yes, I have supervisors who say we better be ready to accept some heat from coaches if we kick a call or rule.

[ColeTops25]

"He said the other official blew it because he didn't let her in the game," Cicerone said.

Wow. If the this statement is true, I'm certainly glad I don't work with this guy. If I blew it, I blew it. I don't need my partner to kick me under the bus in the middle of the fray.