NCAAM Flagrant 2
 

I think the player was given a Flagrant 2 on this play.

Here's a link to a page where there are several angles of the play: Is this the dirtiest play of the college basketball season so far? (GIF) | Off the Bench

Neither the ESPN nor the Valpo box score was any help in identifying the type of foul that was called, I just know the player was ejected.

Anyone think this should only be a flagrant 1?

Added by APG:

http://i0.wp.com/i.imgur.com/OdiU7.gif
http://i0.wp.com/i.imgur.com/5jaTz.gif

Fed.... thinking about the DQ.

I was leaning towards an F1 upon seeing it...though I wouldn't argue with an F2 as it wasn't far from it. It was excessive contact but he did come across the front where the ball was.

I could easily see and argue for F2 if the same level of contact wasn't near the ball.

How I would rule could also be swayed by any previous issues in the game.

I agree with this

NFHS flagrant technical

Try again.

don't think so

Try again....a fragrant technical is not among your available options.

Actually it is. Keep looking.

Uhmmm...according to 4-19-4, in order to be a flagrant T it has to be a dead ball.

we have had these discussions before. contact, while the ball is live, whether flagrant or not cannot be a technical foul.

i have a flagrant 1 on this play. defender pretty clearly goes after the ball. yes there is excessive body contact, which is why i am going ff1. imo, it looks really bad because we have a much smaller airborne player being knocked to the ground by a much larger and stronger player. defensive player does nothing extra to try to drive the player into the ground, so unless there was something similar previously by this player i would not go ff2.

Yep. When the contact occurred, it was a dead ball if I'd had a whistle.

Are you watching the same gif? Unless you're trying to be cute and imply that you think there was a travel...

http://i0.wp.com/i.imgur.com/OdiU7.gif
http://i0.wp.com/i.imgur.com/5jaTz.gif

As to the play, I have a flagrant 2. Wind up, significant impact around the shoulder area, and a follow through. Ejection.

Not implying it, nothing cute about it. There was a travel.

It was a travel, but it's one that never gets called.

I guess if I was in your position, I would have just said I had a travel on the play (as for that, I'm not calling that and I honestly wouldn't expect that to be called either) instead of looking like I don't know what the hell I'm talking about with regard to a live vs dead ball.

Anyhow, here's another look at the play:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8w55X1ythAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The only people calling that travel are those watching it on YouTube.

NFHS. Probably tossing him. Sure looks flagrant.

If the kid doesn't put his left foot down again (which creates the travel), and therefore releases the ball legally, then I'm not sure B1 has a decent play on the ball, and likely doesn't foul A1 in the manner that he did.

I really like the quickness that the L went to the INT - no hesitation on his part whatsoever. However, I'm not sure if that's the proper signal for a FF1 or FF2.

I thought I read somewhere that NCAA officials are still supposed to use the IF signal if they're going to have a flagrant.

I could be wrong though.

What is the intentional foul signal for NFHS is the signal used for a flagrant 1 for NCAA with the arms brought down in front of the body to indicate a flagrant 1 for excessive contact (cue Billy image).

APG - slight refinement

NCAA F1 = NFHS INT

NCAA F2 = NFHS INT + bringing the "x" down from above head to waist-ish

That's not right. An NCAA F2 is a flagrant personal foul in NFHS rules. There is no specific signal for that.

rich - the NCAA has a signal for F2. Please see pg 128 of the Officiating Manual

There is no signal for a flagrant personal foul in NFHS rules. Your post wasn't clear to me originally -- I thought you were comparing the F2 with the NFHS INT rather than just talking about the NCAA signal for a F2.

agreed. I did not intend to convey that there was.

Okay, first I apologize for being flippant. Then some of you got dragged into the spirit of that part of it.



But, seriously, you guys would ignore this in a high school game? There is no other word besides ignore. The last dribble was just inside the 3 point line. The pivot foot was cleary established above the free throw line. Then he winds up 10 feet away from that spot going up off both feet. This is not a basketball game move. This is a dunk contest move. Watching this play is why every 6 footer with decent hops will sometimes try it in a game. They assume that they, too, will be allowed a running start.

JAR,

if there is travel that consistently gets missed/ignored at the college level I would say this is it.

I thought that was a given. I find it impossible to believe that this one was missed, therefore it is my conclusion that it, plus countless others, are ignored.

My question is why?

And would anyone ignore this in a hs game?

Because the college guys on tv do it? Or what?

The players nowadays are so good at ball handling, I think they're too fast/sleek for some officials. Just my observations from the guys I work with.