Players on the floor after 2Q, different in 3Q

[Rooster]

The varsity officials after my game had to deal with the home head coach who complained that the players at the end of the second quarter were different than the players who started the third quarter. According to HC, they did not check in before the 15 second warning buzzer starting the third quarter. He confirmed with the official scorer that no one had checked prior to that buzzer.

My question, How can we enforce 3-3-1a if no one keeps track of the players leaving after the second quarter? Are we expected to keep track?

[JRutledge]

To be perfectly honest with you, I do not care. As long as no one complains or makes a big deal out of who is in the game, I honestly do not monitor how teams communicate or not communicate to the scorer. This is such a non-issue and if someone made an issue out of this it would be a first in my career.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To be perfectly honest with you, I do not care. As long as no one complains or makes a big deal out of who is in the game, I honestly do not monitor how teams communicate or not communicate to the scorer. This is such a non-issue and if someone made an issue out of this it would be a first in my career.

Peace

I should have said I agree, but, The point was somebody made an issue out of it....the coach. Perhaps have the non-administering official go over and confirm starters for 3rd qtr as a bit of preventative officiating?

[ref3808]

So how did our colleagues handle it?

[icallfouls]

Would anyone think to say the onus is on the coach to provide information that confirms his assertion? Since was the home coach complaining, is this something they set up?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Would anyone think to say the onus is on the coach to provide information that confirms his assertion? Since was the home coach complaining, is this something they set up?

That is why there is too much thinking on this issue. Play with who comes out there and let us move on. If I have to actually question the integrity of the coach on an issue like this every time, we have bigger problems.

Peace

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by ref3808

So how did our colleagues handle it?

They blew the whistle and the teams played on, much to the consternation of the HC.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Scorebook verified no one checked in. Did they verify which players were on the court at the end of the half?

The scorer involved said that it would be too difficult to keep track of this, since there's no place to put it in the scorebook. According to him, he's got to add up points for the quarter and verify other "stuff" and therefore has no time to do it.

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Would anyone think to say the onus is on the coach to provide information that confirms his assertion? Since was the home coach complaining, is this something they set up?

This was my argument in our meeting. "What if he was up to some shenanigans." If this comes up in my game I think my response would be that he would have to prove it for me. I don't want him to be able to pick the lineup for the other coach. The best solution some of us came with was to ask the coach "Are these the same players that ended the quarter?" thus putting it on him.

[Adam]

For me, this is all on the scorer. If the scorer can't tell me who finished the last quarter, I'm not trying to remember. And that will be the end of my detective work.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I should have said I agree, but, The point was somebody made an issue out of it....the coach. Perhaps have the non-administering official go over and confirm starters for 3rd qtr as a bit of preventative officiating?

If that is what you want to do, be my guest. I am just saying it is such a minor issue IMO unless someone wants to make a bigger deal out of it. Otherwise, we go with the players that come out on the floor. The only thing I would monitor is if some player tried to go to the table after the warning horn, then I might worry about that part, but otherwise it is not something I am going to make sure is followed to the letter. I doubt coaches even care who the 5 come out on the floor in the second half that closely. And if they did worry about that, they might bring it to our attention more.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do, be my guest. I am just saying it is such a minor issue IMO unless someone wants to make a bigger deal out of it. Otherwise, we go with the players that come out on the floor. The only thing I would monitor is if some player tried to go to the table after the warning horn, then I might worry about that part, but otherwise it is not something I am going to make sure is followed to the letter. I doubt coaches even care who the 5 come out on the floor in the second half that closely. And if they did worry about that, they might bring it to our attention more.

Peace

I agree with you, but again, someone did make an issue of it and this particular coach DID care who was starting the 3rd qtr.

It sounds like this will happen more frequently at this coach's games.

Had this very situation happen in a college game about 5 years ago. Yes it is cheap, yes coach just happened to learn a rule he could try to exploit.

We proceeded according to rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I agree with you, but again, someone did make an issue of it and this particular coach DID care who was starting the 3rd qtr.

It sounds like this will happen more frequently at this coach's games.

Had this very situation happen in a college game about 5 years ago. Yes it is cheap, yes coach just happened to learn a rule he could try to exploit.

We proceeded according to rule.

And you know what my answer would be to that coach? "OK." Then go across the court and put the ball in play.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

We proceeded according to rule.

What do you mean by this. What exactly did you do next?

[Adam]

Coach is right, by rule. I've never bothered with it, though, and like Jeff, I've never even heard of a coach making an issue out of it.

Sounds like some coach just learned himself a new rule.

If it's brought to my attention, I'll enforce it by rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

The varsity officials after my game had to deal with the home head coach who complained that the players at the end of the second quarter were different than the players who started the third quarter. According to HC, they did not check in before the 15 second warning buzzer starting the third quarter. He confirmed with the official scorer that no one had checked prior to that buzzer.

My question, How can we enforce 3-3-1a if no one keeps track of the players leaving after the second quarter? Are we expected to keep track?

That's the scorer's job. If the scorer doesn't know, we have to play with who is out there. If the scorer does know, and the coach raises it, then play with who WAS out there.

[JetMetFan]

3.3.1 SITUATION D:

Intermission has concluded and play is about to resume in the third quarter when the scorer notifies the officials that no Team A substitutes reported prior to the warning horn.

RULING: The third quarter begins with the same five Team A players that concluded the second quarter. (3-3-1a Note)

"Coach, if you can remember the five players on the floor for the other team at the end of the first half more power to you because I sure don't..."

(whistle...ball in play)