First time to toss a coach

[Sharpshooternes]

Last night I finally picked up some 6th grade city league games that a fellow official had been asking me to do for the past two seasons. I did this against my better judgement because Wreck ball is less controlled and I don't want to develop bad habits or get lazy by having a partner that has no training and doesn't do HS ball. Anyway, to the point. Game had been going rather smoothly until 3.5 minutes left in the 8 point game. Coach doesn't like a call that I have (don't really remember what it was) right in front of his bench. He pokes me in the chest with his finger and says "why are you calling that?" Whack!! Easy T for touching me in that manner. Somehow he had gotten the ball in those 3-5 seconds. I go to report and he gives the ball a toss to the opposite end of the court where there are no players. Whack!! T#2 from me.

The coach refused to leave after a couple of minutes and just sat in the stands.

I called the game at this point. Anyway, my question is was I too quick to issue the second technical? The first was easy. There really isn't any AD or game management at the facility so I would also appreciate your thoughts on calling the game.

[BktBallRef]

Too quick to call the second T? Are you kidding????

You should have tossed him IMMEDIATELY when he poked you in the chest!!!!

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Too quick to call the second T? Are you kidding????

You should have tossed him IMMEDIATELY when he poked you in the chest!!!!

Would this be considered a "Double Technical"? where 4 shots would be awarded? or simply a technical foul and 2 shots? I guess my question is that you don't need 2 direct techs in this case since physical contact occured?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Would this be considered a "Double Technical"? where 4 shots would be awarded? or simply a technical foul and 2 shots? I guess my question is that you don't need 2 direct techs in this case since physical contact occured?

First one should have been flagrant.

[jTheUmp]

It wouldn't be a double technical... it would just be a flagrant technical. Ejection, 2 shots.

A double technical would only occur if two T-worthy actions occur with some time interval between them... the interval doesn't have to be very long, but it has to be there. For example:

Coach: "You've gotta be f-cking kidding me!"
Official: "Tweet. Technical foul."
Coach: "You're a horsesh-t official!"
Official: "Tweet. Technical foul."

Two separate actions, two separate Ts.

[The_Rookie]

GREAT ANSWER..Makes it very clear..Thanks

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

It wouldn't be a double technical... it would just be a flagrant technical. Ejection, 2 shots.

A double technical would only occur if two T-worthy actions occur with some time interval between them... the interval doesn't have to be very long, but it has to be there. For example:

Coach: "You've gotta be f-cking kidding me!"
Official: "Tweet. Technical foul."
Coach: "You're a horsesh-t official!"
Official: "Tweet. Technical foul."

Two separate actions, two separate Ts.

Just to be clear...what you describe is not a double technical. It is two technicals on that coach. A double T would be something that happens between opponents.

[jTheUmp]

Ah yes, quite right.

Double (Technical) foul = (Technical) fouls committed by opponents against each other at approximately the same time.

[maven]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Just to be clear...what you describe is not a double technical. It is two technicals on that coach. A double T would be something that happens between opponents.

Yep, and that makes a big difference. Two T's and you're shooting four FT's (with between 1 and 4 shooters ).

A double T and you're shooting zero FT's and resuming at the POI.

I know that you know this, just adding it for general edification. (Maybe Adam knows the general?)

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Would this be considered a "Double Technical"? where 4 shots would be awarded? or simply a technical foul and 2 shots? I guess my question is that you don't need 2 direct techs in this case since physical contact occured?

I treated it as a ??false multiple technical foul??. One for the poke and second for tossing the ball away. We did shoot four TFTs. However, I have learned in this situation it should have been flagrant for the first one and not even dealt with the rest of it.

[APG]

Perhaps I'm envisioning this wrong, but if a coach pokes me in the chest and asks "why I'm calling that?" then WHACK, HE'S DONE for contacting an official. If there's something we're perhaps envisioning wrong (going to give you benefit of the doubt here), then that second act is still an easy T...GET OUT!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

Perhaps I'm envisioning this wrong, but if a coach pokes me in the chest and asks "why I'm calling that?" then WHACK, HE'S DONE for contacting an official. If there's something we're perhaps envisioning wrong (going to give you benefit of the doubt here), then that second act is still an easy T...GET OUT!

Yep.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by APG

Perhaps I'm envisioning this wrong, but if a coach pokes me in the chest and asks "why I'm calling that?" then WHACK, HE'S DONE for contacting an official. If there's something we're perhaps envisioning wrong (going to give you benefit of the doubt here), then that second act is still an easy T...GET OUT!

No you guys are right. Should have tossed him after the first one. I felt kinda bad for the guy who asked me to come ref that night. First time I come, I toss a coach. LMAO!! I am really, really curious if he invites me to do anymore games (which I will politely decline).

I asked him what the league rules were for the coach who has been ejected (ie. Do they have to leave the gym, facility, just leave the bench to the stands, etc.)He said, "I don't know. We haven't had one yet this year.

I told my wife about it and She asked me if I was T happy. I said no although my previous 2 years, I had only give 2 Ts total. This year: 10. Every one of them was deserved and I hadn't questioned any except this one and the one I didn't give to an AC a few weeks ago.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I asked him what the league rules were for the coach who has been ejected (ie. Do they have to leave the gym, facility, just leave the bench to the stands, etc.)He said, "I don't know. We haven't had one yet this year.

When in doubt follow whatever code you're working with but all codes call for a coach who has been ejected to leave the playing area (NFHS 10-5-5 Note, NCAA 4-23).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

No you guys are right. Should have tossed him after the first one. I felt kinda bad for the guy who asked me to come ref that night. First time I come, I toss a coach. LMAO!! I am really, really curious if he invites me to do anymore games (which I will politely decline).

When you decline... I would inform him that a large part of your reason for declining is the lack of site admin. Don't EVER work games without some sort of neutral(ish) site admin.