Warning?
 

Had this happen today in a high school game. Two-shot foul called on Team B. Right after the foul is reported, B coach calls all of his players over to talk to them. Before any of them get even two steps away, I say, "We'll still need two, Coach. Leave us two."

I am the Lead about to administer A's free throws. Partner picks up my appeal to the coach to have two players come and fill the required spots in the lane. No response. We both look at each other and roll our eyes. Partner ends up having to approach huddle before two B players peeled off and came down.

It's not one of the four warnings for delay in 4-47 (which was why we didn't hit them with one), so how have some of you handled this situation, if ever?

Thanks!

Look in your case book. You will find a ruling stating to do what you did--direct two defending players to fill the required lane spaces and if there is a delay in doing so, then you are to assess a team technical foul for delaying the game.

This brings up a good point. Why is this not a delay of game situation. Is it really any different than players huddling in the lane. Both actions have the same effect and are essentially the same act. Perhaps the rule should be changed to make it a DoG situation.

For that matter, why are defenders even required to be there. I can't see any purpose for it...there is no problem that it creates if the defense wants to not go for a possible rebound.

I think it has the potential to be much worse. You can usually clear players up in a huddle in a real hurry. At the bench, there are coaches involved and they could be a good distance away.

I had the same situation, team was on the other side of the dividing line. I was administrating the FT, yelled over there a couple times and was ignored. I administered the FT and called a lane violation. That got the coaches attention. He did not know the rule and started arguing the point that if he did not want anyone in the lane, he did not have to. He would not believe us.

I say administer the FT, lane violation first, T after that.

You would be incorrect ...


10.1.5 SITUATION C:

The ruling official has reported the foul and *proceeds to his/her proper position for the first of two free throws awarded to A1. B1 and B2 are: (a) huddling in the lane; or (b) two B players are not occupying the first two marked spaces next to the end line as required.
RULING: In (a), if the huddle delays the officials' administration, Team B is warned. The *warning is recorded by the scorer and reported to the head coach. If Team B had been previously warned for delay, a technical foul shall be charged. In (b), Team B will be directed to occupy the required spaces. If there is delay, a team technical foul shall be charged to Team B. (4-47)

You may say it, but the book says you're only right if you're coming out of a timeout.

Thanks for the correction, this only happen once to me.

It's odd that the actual rule (8-1-4c) states only that the first marked lane spaces SHALL be occupied by opponents of the free thrower.

I was beginning to think this was a myth perpetuated by absolutely everyone in our fraternity (including yours truly) until I read the case play you guys referenced (thanks). Only there does it say MUST.

Poorly worded rule, but very helpful discussion. Shall definitely contrasts with the "may" of 8-1-4d & e, but it's not as clear/resolute as "must" or "are required to."

Not it isn't. Shall means exactly that....it is a synonym of must.

Actually, I think I was correct.

9.1.2 Situation A Talks about Team B huddling by the bench and the first two lanes are unoccupied.

RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw.

You were incorrect. 9.1.2 Situation A only applies after a timeout.

The difference, as already stated by Adam above, is that this is after a timeout. In the OP, there was no timeout.

I am corrected again.

That's what we're here for.:D

What if they make the First FT, thus no lane violation? Do you assess the technical foul after the second attempt? Or do you bounce the ball to the player, then whistle a violation. The FT shooter will shoot thier second FT with the lanes cleared, then 2 tech FTs and then ball at mid court?
Or what if they are in the lanes for the first after a timeout but then decide to huddle for the second outside the 3-point line?

If I understand it correctly, (it happens sometimes) the RPP covers only the first free throw after a timeout. Obviously, if this free throw is successful, no further attempt of that free throw is necessary. Any other time, including the second free throw of this sequence, two players are ordered to occupy the spots, and if they don't, you assess the T.

Almost correct ... If the first FT is successful, you repeat the procedure. If either FT is unsuccessful, the shooter gets a substitute throw and then "B" must occupy their lane spaces or be assessed a tech.


9.1.2 SITUATION A:

Following a time-out by Team B, A1 is given the ball for the first of two free throws even though Team B is still huddling at the bench and the first marked spaces on each side of the lane are not occupied. In this case, the lead official uses the resumption-of-play procedure even though the first spaces are not occupied, whereas in other cases, the spaces would have to be properly occupied before the official would proceed with the free throw administration. A1's first attempt is successful. The lead official then bounces the ball to A1 for the second attempt. Team B is still at the sideline. The official again gives the signal which indicates a violation by Team B if the attempt is missed. A1 misses the second free-throw attempt.

RULING: The violation will result in A1 being given a substitute attempt. Team B will be assessed a technical foul if they delay further by not *occupying the first marked spaces on each side of the lane before the ball becomes live for the substitute throw. (4-38; 8-1-2; 10-1-5b)

We are referring to if there is only to be one FT after a timeout and they don't have the low 2 blocks filled. If it is made, away we go. If it is missed they get a substitute and are ordered to fill the spaces. If they don't it is a T.

Again, I ask, how do you administer this? On the substitute or second FT, do you bounce the ball to the thrower and then immediatly whistle it dead? Thower shoots thier FT with the lane cleared and then 2 more by any player on the same team?

No. When you are ready to administer the replacement shot and the defense is NOT occupying the spot, it is a T right then. No need to bounce it to the shooter.

(Edited to add the missing NOT)

You meant NOT occupying the spot, right?

Seems like the real penalty "should" be an intentional miss by the shooter followed by rebound & layup for 2 points instead of one while Team B is discussing dinner plans or foreign policy. I suspect that's why you might see a coach try not having players on the low block spaces for a first of 2 but not for a 2nd of 2.

Yep